Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

[handog]

Handog, if I had the original, I'd be happy to scan the 18 pages into a PDF file. We can probably find a site where we can post it.

Until that happens, we will continue to read gigag04's opinions that all LEO's are perfect and that no officer can ever be wrong.

Mike, (no offence) I really don't care if you believe me or not; besides it's public record. You can request a copy but you won't get the original.

[Mike1951]

Handog, if I had the original, I'd be happy to scan the 18 pages into a PDF file. We can probably find a site where we can post it.

Until that happens, we will continue to read gigag04's opinions that all LEO's are perfect and that no officer can ever be wrong.

Mike, (no offence) I really don't care if you believe me or not; besides it's public record. You can request a copy but you won't get the original.

It need not be the original as long as the copy is clean enough to scan. I have always believed you. I'm just tiring of gigag04's pious defense of all LEOs.

However, if it isn't posted, more will question why it wasn't. My offer was to stop the second guessing, but I'm not motivated enough to request my own copy.

[handog]

Handog, if I had the original, I'd be happy to scan the 18 pages into a PDF file. We can probably find a site where we can post it.

Until that happens, we will continue to read gigag04's opinions that all LEO's are perfect and that no officer can ever be wrong.

Mike, (no offence) I really don't care if you believe me or not; besides it's public record. You can request a copy but you won't get the original.

It need not be the original as long as the copy is clean enough to scan. I have always believed you. I'm just tiring of gigag04's pious defense of all LEOs.

However, if it isn't posted, more will question why it wasn't. My offer was to stop the second guessing, but I'm not motivated enough to request my own copy.

There are some here that (with good intentions) will defend LEOs regardless of 18 or 118 pages. It would not stop the second guessing.

[UpTheIrons]

Once the stop is completed (sans arrest), make sure you unload the weapon and keep the ammo (there is nothing in law preventing this and it helps ensure you get to go home at end of the day).

If the vehicle has a trunk....I recommend you place the weapon there and close it. Then your parting instruction could be something like "Don't reacquire your weapon until I am out of sight".

Not to add gas to the fire, but this is pretty much what my LEO CHL instructor said he would do with traffic stops. If he's writing you a ticket, he wants the gun away from you while he does it. He said he'd unload and field strip it, and hand the parts back to you in a ziploc bag, so you wouldn't have it back together and re-loaded before he was out of sight.

For everyone's safety, of course.

Does he really do that? I don't think so, since he's on the county SWAT team and usually in HQ for his 'day job'. And I doubt that's the attitude of every officer on the city PD.

[driver8]

That guy needs to be selling lingerie at Victoria Secret. If I was that scared and dis trusting of law abiding CHL holders There is no way I could be in law enforcement. If he is that ignorant why shouldn't we be scared of him being armed if he stops us?

[Right2Carry]

I don't see how a LEO can know every law, what are there, about a million of them? I would expect them to be up on the ones that they are likely to deal with often. CHL law is one of them because they deal with carrying guns. Texas cops should remember they live and work in Texas and not act like they think they are in New York.

Why shouldn't they be? They expect citizens to be up on every single law, remember ignorance of the law is no excuse. If I am expected to know the laws then I expect no less from the LEO's.

[gigag04]

Handog, if I had the original, I'd be happy to scan the 18 pages into a PDF file. We can probably find a site where we can post it.

Until that happens, we will continue to read gigag04's opinions that all LEO's are perfect and that no officer can ever be wrong.

Mike, (no offence) I really don't care if you believe me or not; besides it's public record. You can request a copy but you won't get the original.

It need not be the original as long as the copy is clean enough to scan. I have always believed you. I'm just tiring of gigag04's pious defense of all LEOs.

However, if it isn't posted, more will question why it wasn't. My offer was to stop the second guessing, but I'm not motivated enough to request my own copy.

Wow - don't think I've done this on this post or others. In my (short) time as an LEO I have known people to make mistakes. Amazing enough...it happens (sarcasm). I'll be the first one to admit that LEOs aren't perfect. I've known some that have a chip on their shoulder, etc. Thank goodness the FBI takes allegations of violation of civil rights (18 USC 241 and 242) seriously and will investigate and prosecute those actions. It speaks volumes to me about how we should conduct ourselves if (wrong or right) you guys in this area feel this way about your local departments. Call me crazy but I think that a person should be able to trust the police, and expect professional, and fair enforcement...it's sad that this is not the case.

I haven't defended "all LEOs" nor do I feel the anyone is guilty until proven innocent....just trying to offer a perspective that not many people are privy to....that's it. (Maybe it's so shocking that something like this would fly - becauase I've known people to have been fired for far less) It appears that in doing so I have stirred the pot and gotten this thread way off track with a different discussion. I apologize and will make an effort to keep any further posting in this topic inline with the original track of the wording of the probable cause statement.

As far as the wording of "because so and so intentionally failed to conceal" - that is how every arrest document is worded. In the officer's opinion that is what happened. If it has happened as described, then I definitely disagree with his interpretation of the events, however I was not there so I can't tell you what his line of thought was. This is where the courts decide whether or not the officer was correct in his probable cause. PC is a far lesser burden of proof than proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And, the courts sided easily in the OP's favor.

As a sidenote (this will really get you guys going) - he didn't have to add the word "intentional" at all. Most PC statements are fill in the blank for the charging the preamble (name of defendant, date/location of offense, which offense was committed) - the only part that really matters is after that which is the meat - it is the officer's narrative as to what happened. I would guess it to be 2 maybe 3 pages long counting the preamble. That is where the officer will meet the elements of the offense leading up to his probable cause to arrest the defendant.

[suthdj]

Once the stop is completed (sans arrest), make sure you unload the weapon and keep the ammo (there is nothing in law preventing this and it helps ensure you get to go home at end of the day).

If the vehicle has a trunk....I recommend you place the weapon there and close it. Then your parting instruction could be something like "Don't reacquire your weapon until I am out of sight".

Not to add gas to the fire, but this is pretty much what my LEO CHL instructor said he would do with traffic stops. If he's writing you a ticket, he wants the gun away from you while he does it. He said he'd unload and field strip it, and hand the parts back to you in a ziploc bag, so you wouldn't have it back together and re-loaded before he was out of sight.

When I was in basic training I could rebuild my M16 from a full break down in around 30 seconds, the 4 parts to my glock would be no challenge. Now if he broke it down more then that I would probably bring it to his supervisor to put back together.

[boomerang]

Not to add gas to the fire, but this is pretty much what my LEO CHL instructor said he would do with traffic stops. If he's writing you a ticket, he wants the gun away from you while he does it. He said he'd unload and field strip it, and hand the parts back to you in a ziploc bag, so you wouldn't have it back together and re-loaded before he was out of sight.

For everyone's safety, of course.

As long as there's even one jerk like that in Texas, that's more than enough reason to have at least one extra firearm that's kept private.

And a reason to reconsider renewing my Texas CHL when I have an out-of-state CHL that doesn't show up on the bad guy's MDT.

[glbedd53]

I'm gonna field strip it and put it in a baggy and pour hot lead in the barrel and pour the powder out of the bullets and adjust my pink thong and get back in the car and get back to the station and watch Lifetime.

[blue]

No one should EVER mess with a UNKNOWN gun without giving THE GUN their FULL attention. PERIOD.

So therefore it is impossible to be paying full attention to the safety of the stop, (for all concerned), while doing any thing to the gun.

Before,During, and After the stop.

JUST LEAVE IT ALONE!!!



************OC 2011***********

[flintknapper]

Once the stop is completed (sans arrest), make sure you unload the weapon and keep the ammo (there is nothing in law preventing this and it helps ensure you get to go home at end of the day).

If the vehicle has a trunk....I recommend you place the weapon there and close it. Then your parting instruction could be something like "Don't reacquire your weapon until I am out of sight".

Not to add gas to the fire, but this is pretty much what my LEO CHL instructor said he would do with traffic stops. If he's writing you a ticket, he wants the gun away from you while he does it. He said he'd unload and field strip it, and hand the parts back to you in a ziploc bag, so you wouldn't have it back together and re-loaded before he was out of sight.

When I was in basic training I could rebuild my M16 from a full break down in around 30 seconds, the 4 parts to my glock would be no challenge. Now if he broke it down more then that I would probably bring it to his supervisor to put back together.

Pretty good!

[flintknapper]

Once the stop is completed (sans arrest), make sure you unload the weapon and keep the ammo (there is nothing in law preventing this and it helps ensure you get to go home at end of the day).

If the vehicle has a trunk....I recommend you place the weapon there and close it. Then your parting instruction could be something like "Don't reacquire your weapon until I am out of sight".

Not to add gas to the fire, but this is pretty much what my LEO CHL instructor said he would do with traffic stops. If he's writing you a ticket, he wants the gun away from you while he does it. He said he'd unload and field strip it, and hand the parts back to you in a ziploc bag, so you wouldn't have it back together and re-loaded before he was out of sight.

For everyone's safety, of course.

Does he really do that? I don't think so, since he's on the county SWAT team and usually in HQ for his 'day job'. And I doubt that's the attitude of every officer on the city PD.

I hope the sarcasm of my quoted text was readily apparent to all that read it initially. It was an attempt to make a point.

There are some LEO so totally eaten up with the officer safety thing....that nothing else matters, fortunately..they are the exception (but perhaps growing in number).

I agree with your statement (highlighted above). In fact...in the 13 yrs I've been carrying, I've been stopped exactly 3 times. Each time...the LEO (DPS and Sheriffs Dep) took a cursory look at my license and handed it right back. All were very courteous and professional (I give them no reason to be otherwise).

Each extended me the courtesy of their discretion and let me go with verbal warnings, they didn't have to do that.

[UpTheIrons]

Once the stop is completed (sans arrest), make sure you unload the weapon and keep the ammo (there is nothing in law preventing this and it helps ensure you get to go home at end of the day).

If the vehicle has a trunk....I recommend you place the weapon there and close it. Then your parting instruction could be something like "Don't reacquire your weapon until I am out of sight".

Not to add gas to the fire, but this is pretty much what my LEO CHL instructor said he would do with traffic stops. If he's writing you a ticket, he wants the gun away from you while he does it. He said he'd unload and field strip it, and hand the parts back to you in a ziploc bag, so you wouldn't have it back together and re-loaded before he was out of sight.

When I was in basic training I could rebuild my M16 from a full break down in around 30 seconds, the 4 parts to my glock would be no challenge. Now if he broke it down more then that I would probably bring it to his supervisor to put back together.

I don't know why he said that during the class. It seemed odd and out of place, which is why I brought it up. If he was teaching the class, wouldn't he be one of the first to trust us? After all, since we all met the requirements, he's saying we are the good guys (and gals), right?

Again, I'm not trying to slam my local PD, but sometimes there are things that make you go "Huh?" On the whole, we've got a great PD here, and they go above and beyond and do what is right. I thank them for their service and include them in our weekly prayers.

[glbedd53]

Sorry, I guess the sarcasm got by me. I guess I didn't see it as that unlikely that there could be one of those out there. I do know of at least once that a person was patted down on the side of the hiway just because he did what he was suppossed to do and presented his CHL with his DL. And yes I do know the guy and there is no way he did anything to justify it. He is a person of authority at the plant where he works and a former mayor of a town in this area and nothing even close to a criminal record. Just going overboard.