mojo84 wrote:Not giving legal or insurance advice here, just some suggestions to consider.
Notify your homeowners insurance company immediately. Let the adjuster help sort it out. They typically will go ahead and pay under med pay or liabilty is there is not an animal exclusion. I would recommend not getting into who's fault is it argument with your friends. This is what insurance is for and they've handled many such claims. Without offering up any admission of liability, I would offer my sympathies for the bite and be empathetic to the parents and little girl. Arguing over fault and who is responsible will only escalate the damage and harm the frienship. Of someone has to choose between a friend and his dog and his daughter, the daughter will win and you and your insurance company will pay more.
Also, be aware, the insurance company will be concerned about your dog going forward. They may or may not renew your coverage.
However, as an owner of GSDs myself and Rotties in the past and having trained dogs for protection and obedience for many many years, I place the blame for this squarely at your feet. You know you have a dangerous dog and failed to completely control the situation and secure the dog in a crate or other enclosure so that this could not happen. The actions of a dog or a child cannot be completely predicted nor relied upon and the two are drawn to one another. You can blame the child's mother all you want, but the dog was your responsibility. And if I read you correctly, the only thing keeping your dog in his area was an e-collar with a perimeter wire that activates the collar when it gets close to this wire or far enough away from something? I have seen many dogs of many different breeds run right through something like that and just ignore the collar when their drive/desire was higher for the object/child/animal than the punishment the collar delivered.
Before you get completely furious with me, I'm very sorry this happened at all. I'm sorry for you and I'm sorry for the little girl and her family. I really am! This is a horrible thing to go through for everyone for many different reasons. And I'm sorry for your dog. I hope you get him back. Thankfully, the girl was not severely physically harmed. However, I also fear that she may fear any dog or any large dog or maybe just GSDs for the rest of her life. Her psychological damage might be the worst result of this incident.
I dont mean to criticize, but only to give my opinion.
No one other than you, really understood the capacity of your dog. The sense of caution among your guests was probably blunted somewhat by the dog not being chained or penned. They trusted your judgement in how the dog was secured.
As a father & grandfather, I cant convey how difficult it is to react in time to a child's whims - & there are many times, although vigilant, I was unable to react in time to incidents I saw developing. Those grubby little rug rats are quick!
Hope it all works out for yall.
“In the world of lies, truth-telling is a hanging offense"
~Unknown
I'm rather naive in the hospital bill / claim order of things. I know they left out of there being told the bill would be sent for their(relatively small ) co-pay. I'm trying currently to get him to contact the hospital to have the bill e-mailed or made available for my local pickup ( he lives 50min from this hospital, I'm about 15 min). What I don't know is if we can intercede that before any type of claim actually gets sent to their insurance.
edited for typos
Last edited by loktite on Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
glock27 wrote:To spin this. Would you leave a loaded gun(protective dog) around a child? Yes ultimatly the parents should have watched their child closer, but it still falls on your shoulders...
Loaded gun*guard dog=gsw*stitches
Would you still put blame on the parents if it was a gun that the kid got a hold of cause they should have been watching them closer?
100% your fault. The dog is ultimately under your control as he is your property.
Me personally regardless of what side i was on and this may not be p.c. but the dog wouldnt be around anymore to say the least
with everything except getting rid of the dog. I see no reason to get rid of the dog. Blaming the dog would be like blaming a gun for a negligent discharge.
This is a lesson for everyone involved. The op should keep better control of his dog, the parents should keep a closer eye on their child and the child should now know not to trust animals she does not know. It's a shame the lesson was learned this way though. That's life.
Last edited by Javier730 on Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity.”
― Horace Mann
My dad got bite by a neighbors dog about 10 years ago. He got 4 stitches and healed up good enough. The dog owners homeowners insurance tried to pay my dad off first with $5000 he said no, they're my friends then the insurance company came back with a $10,000 settlement again my dad said no thank you. The insurance company didn't like it because he wouldn't sign his rights way to sue at a later time. He never did take a dime and remained friends until the day he died.
Disclaimer: Anything I state can not be applied to 100% of all situations. Sometimes it's ok to speak in general terms.
People love to hate the insurance company and make them out to be the bad guy. First, "it's not a payoff". It's an offer to settle for damages sustained. As a condition of that settlement, the claimant agrees that it is settlement in full. If they hadn't made the settlement offers, they would be bashed for that. It's a no win situation when all they were doing is what their policy, which is a contract between the insurance company and insured, says they should do.
Believe me, they weren't upset your dad didn't take their money. They were concerned there was a potential liability hanging out there for two years that had to be accounted for in their balance sheet. It would have preferable to them if they could have settled it and moved on without paying a settlement.
I respect your dad for not making an issue of an accident and looking for compensation. That is commendable.
Last edited by mojo84 on Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unless they are threatening to sue you, I would offer to pay all medical expenses out of pocket (if you are able) and neither notify the insurance company, nor have them file a claim on their medical insurance.
If you file w/ your homeowner's insurance, you will likely be dropped and not able to get another policy if you keep the dog.
If they file with their medical, it will almost surely go to subrogation and their medical insurance company will then sue you and your homeowner's insurance company.
Unless it's an astronomical figure that you can't afford, pay it and move on. Additionally, have an attorney draft a letter that they will not sue you in the future for the incident and have them sign it in return for paying the bills without argument.
I'm a dog lover and own three big dogs of my own. I'm incredibly empathetic to your situation, but you're 100% at fault in this case. Not trying to be harsh or mean, just the facts.
Yes, that is the current objective, for us to pay the expenses without involvement of either insurance. If we are unable to intercede the medical claim, my hope is that their insurance will accept payment from us without needing to involve our homeowners. That's the last thing I want at this point. And yes, ultimately I am responsible. Or my mom, since her best friend/she gave permission for them to go inside. Yes, the mother shouldn't have allowed the child to contact the dog first.
Nonetheless, it happened. I'm changing the the title of first post as I believe we've run the course. I thank everyone for their input.
sidenote : The dog came to us in 09, when my father was still alive, and I had just arrived back due to unemployment, was helping with projects on the place. My father's health started to decline, died in '11 to multiple stroke/heart attacks the night after getting his port installed for chemo. The dog is registered under my mothers name at the vet, and does have current rabies vaccination. As far as the County Sheriff was concerned though, it's my dog :)
ETA: "vaccination" so as not to confuse some.
Last edited by loktite on Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, that is the current objective, for us to pay the expenses without involvement of either insurance. If we are unable to intercede the medical claim, my hope is that their insurance will accept payment from us without needing to involve our homeowners. That's the last thing I want at this point. And yes, ultimately I am responsible. Or my mom, since her best friend/she gave permission for them to go inside. Yes, the mother shouldn't have allowed the child to contact the dog first.
Nonetheless, it happened. I'm changing the the title of first post as I believe we've run the course. I thank everyone for their input.
sidenote : The dog came to us in 09, when my father was still alive, and I had just arrived back due to unemployment, was helping with projects on the place. My father's health started to decline, died in '11 to multiple stroke/heart attacks the night after getting his port installed for chemo. The dog is registered under my mothers name at the vet, and does have current rabies. As far as the County Sheriff was concerned though, it's my dog :)
As a LEO I've seen this situation before. Child get bitten, police are called, dog attempts or does attack police, police destroy dog on site and take owner to jail.
I would not own a animal that would attack a child personally.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.
nightmare69 wrote:As a LEO I've seen this situation before. Child get bitten, police are called, dog attempts or does attack police, police destroy dog on site and take owner to jail.
I would not own a animal that would attack a child personally.
I understand your logic behind saying you would not own an animal that would attack a child but you cannot be 100% sure that your animal will not attack a child. There are other reasons besides being aggressive and/or territorial why a dog would bite someone. The dog might have felt threatened for some reason. A child playing (raising its arm quickly) might look aggressive to a dog not familiar with the child. The dog might have been injured by the child. Some dogs will instinctively bite at whatever is injuring them, like a foot stepping on their paw. As much control or even dominance YOU have over your dog, you cannot be sure how it will behave when your not close by or when it is afraid or injured by another person.
Dogs also do not like having their ears and nose messed with. That could trigger a negative response from any dog.
Last edited by Javier730 on Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity.”
― Horace Mann
nightmare69 wrote:As a LEO I've seen this situation before. Child get bitten, police are called, dog attempts or does attack police, police destroy dog on site and take owner to jail.
I would not own a animal that would attack a child personally.
I understand your logic behind saying you would not own an animal that would attack a child but you cannot be 100% sure that your animal will not attack a child. There are other reasons besides being aggressive and/or territorial why a dog would bite someone. The dog might have felt threatened for some reason. A child playing (raising its arm quickly) might look aggressive to a dog not familiar with the child. The dog might have been injured by the child. Some dogs will instinctively bite at whatever is injuring them, like a foot stepping on their paw. As much control or even dominance YOU have over your dog, you cannot be sure how it will behave when your not close by out when it is afraid or injured by another person.
If my dog ever did bite a child it would be the last time. I love my dog but I value a child's safety and well being over an animal any day.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.
nightmare69 wrote:As a LEO I've seen this situation before. Child get bitten, police are called, dog attempts or does attack police, police destroy dog on site and take owner to jail.
I would not own a animal that would attack a child personally.
I understand your logic behind saying you would not own an animal that would attack a child but you cannot be 100% sure that your animal will not attack a child. There are other reasons besides being aggressive and/or territorial why a dog would bite someone. The dog might have felt threatened for some reason. A child playing (raising its arm quickly) might look aggressive to a dog not familiar with the child. The dog might have been injured by the child. Some dogs will instinctively bite at whatever is injuring them, like a foot stepping on their paw. As much control or even dominance YOU have over your dog, you cannot be sure how it will behave when your not close by out when it is afraid or injured by another person.
If my dog ever did bite a child it would be the last time. I love my dog but I value a child's safety and well being over an animal any day.
I would too if it happened because of the dogs aggression but even at that only the owner is to blame. The dog behavior is affected by how the owner raises it. In my opinion, this could have been prevented. Bad situation for everyone. This in my opinion is like a negligent discharge. Its not the guns fault, its not the dogs fault.
“Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity.”
― Horace Mann
My .02 cents, as a German Shepherd owner and being bitten several times myself: I think the issue of how this happened has been walked through already.
When I've been bitten, "dog bite" is kinda like "gun shot" and sets off a series of procedures in the two hospitals that I've been in related to bites. Generally, they want to know whose dog it was, where it occurred, and document the entire thing. I've been told that sometimes they get a LEO. I didn't answer those questions, so I don't actually know how it goes beyond that, but in both of my bites - there was a procedure for documenting the "who done it"...
I assume that information is passed on to the covering insurance company who then attempts to tie the treatment to the home owner... IE - contacting your insurance or not, they're probably going to get a bill. I think the only way you'd steer clear of it is to pay for the hospital visit in cash and avoid the "do you have insurance" question, but it's too late for that.
Several years ago I was bit by a very large German shepherd, as in taken down from behind 27 stitches in one leg ,2 months off work infection drainage holes Ect. Bit completely through both thumbs prying dog teeth out of my thigh. Local Sheriff ( I guess doctors office called them as I did not) met us at doctors office to take incident report, Owner was informed He had to do something with the dog as I was the third person he had attacked.
Anyway I was told later by sheriff they investigate dog attacks same as knife,gun wounds ,beatings ect.
Those grubby little rug rats are quick! 
