Private Aircraft and Airports

[DonFromTexas]

I am a newbie waiting for his CHL, but also an airplane owner as well as an owner of a hangar on an airport. A check of the archives leaves me quiet confused. I have the following questions:
1. Can I carry concealed onto my airport and in my hangar. It takes a special card issued to me to enter the airport, is this then a "secured area"?
2. When I land at another airport, how am I supposed to know if I can carry concealed or not at that airport?
3. Am I correct to assume that while flying in my privately owned aircraft, there are no prohibitions against concealed carry?
4. Am I legal to fly over a state that does not recognize my Texas CCW permit?
5. What other CCW issues should I be aware of as a private pilot?
In four hours of classroom instruction, nothing was mentioned of these situations.

[JALLEN]

Former owner and pilot here.

1. The airport requires a card for entry. It's not a secured area. That refers to the TSA controlled area where no one is allowed without inspection. Some airports are both carrier and private aviation and the "secure area" is closely controlled and watched. The private aviation area is not, although entrance is limited by the cards. If you are legal to carry in that state, then you are ok in that private area. You aren't allowed in the secure area, concealed carry or not.

2. If you can land there you will tie down in a non-secured area, I would think, same as above. They do not allow you to stop and get out in a secure area, in my experience which was a few years back, I hasten to add. KCRQ was like that

3. As far as I know, you can open or conceal carry in your own plane. Who will know? You are PIC.

4. If you do carry over a state where your permit is not recognized, better be sure you don't land there, not always in your control, as you know. A better example might be flying over California with magazines of more than 10 rounds. Those are forbidden in CA, so if you have to land in CA with them, you'd best hope you are not caught, because it will be very serious if you are. In almost all states, you can possess an unloaded gun, in a locked case, ammo separate. That might be the best arrangement, but remember the mag limits in some states. OTOH, why would you need to "carry" in your airplane?

[Mel]

Jallen pretty much nailed it.

I've been carrying in my airplane for years. No problem.
I also carry into airports almost every day inspecting aircraft. Again, no problems. If you don't go through a "security checkpoint" you are not in a "secured area".

Only thing I would add is, be careful researching the states you will land in. Some states do not allow carry in ANY airport terminal building, including FBOs at GA airports. And if you land at an airport with both commercial and general aviation gates, make sure you go to the GA gate.

[JALLEN]

My experience at a few multi use airports, LAX, SBA, SAT and Sacramento among them, is that you will not be allowed to taxi or enter the carrier secured areas even if you want to and ask politely, even "pretty please"' and will wish you had not if you do anyway.

[sjfcontrol]

3. Am I correct to assume that while flying in my privately owned aircraft, there are no prohibitions against concealed carry?

Horribly off topic...

Back in the early '70's Kansas had an attorney general named 'Vern Miller'. Back in those days, Kansas was a dry state -- you couldn't buy liquor by the drink. (May still be that way for all I know.)

Anyway, to make this post somewhat relevant, he wanted to prohibit airliners from serving liquor while in the air over Kansas. This lead to political cartoons of him in a private aircraft with a "bubble-gum" (police light) on the top, trying to "pull over" a 707 in flight.

[Dave2]

OTOH, why would you need to "carry" in your airplane?

Disarming would be a waste of time & effort if you're going to be carrying before and after your flight anyway.

Also, I hear the Soviets have genetically engineered flying bears now, and you might need to defend yourself...

[Mel]

OTOH, why would you need to "carry" in your airplane?

Why would you need to carry in your car? I carry at home. I carry at my destination. Why would I NOT carry in my airplane?

[Charlies.Contingency]

OTOH, why would you need to "carry" in your airplane?

Why would you need to carry in your car? I carry at home. I carry at my destination. Why would I NOT carry in my airplane?

Why would you carry in your car going down the highway? Well hey, you might have to stop at a gas station to refuel, and before you re-arm, you're getting car-jacked. Similar to the carrying on a plane concept, though far less likely. Carry on!

[JALLEN]

I take it none of you have flown in your own airplane.

1. "Disarming". Please. If it takes you more than a few seconds to change from "armed" to "unarmed" as you get into and out of the plane, you might rethink your set up. You aren't disarmed anyway. You can stash the pistol, or machine gun, whatever, safely for convenient access. I flew Mooneys, a Cessna twin, Malibu and Mirage. The twin and Pipers were more spacious, but you don't sit in a Mooney as much as you wear it.

2. Unless you intend on dog fighting a la the Red Baron in mid flight, you have no need whatsoever for that gun tucked into your waist in flight. It is completely different than driving around in the car and stopping at the Stop and Rob for gas or coffee etc.

Come on, men!

[Mel]

I guess I don't understand your reasoning. I've been flying my RV-6 with my Kahr PM40 tucked snugly in my IWB holster for years. And I promise you the RV-6 is every bit as snug as a Mooney, which I used to own BTW.

It's very comfortable and I don't see any reason to remove it while flying.

I'll also add that I will be taking my Flight Review this week in a Mooney and intend to have my piece right on my side where it normally resides.

[Dave2]

I take it none of you have flown in your own airplane.

1. "Disarming". Please. If it takes you more than a few seconds to change from "armed" to "unarmed" as you get into and out of the plane, you might rethink your set up. You aren't disarmed anyway. You can stash the pistol, or machine gun, whatever, safely for convenient access. I flew Mooneys, a Cessna twin, Malibu and Mirage. The twin and Pipers were more spacious, but you don't sit in a Mooney as much as you wear it.

I've flown an airplane belonging to a family friend... Is that close enough? It was a Cessna, IIRC, but whatever it was, it seemed plenty roomy to me at the time. OTOH, I was seven at said time, so maybe it was just a matter of scale.

(Yes, it's a true story. No, it was not a solo flight. Yes, my parents were terrified when the family friend said I could touch the controls. Yes, we all lived)

I guess I don't see the relation... What does "the seat is a tight fit" have to do with "in an airplane"? Reminds me of all those pointless patents that just tack on the phrase "with a computer" or "on the Internet" to existing ideas.

[FL450]

As a corporate pilot my company leases a hangar at Hobby.
The local PD considers it like a business ad far as carry goes.
Now that being said TSA might have a mind of their own.
Our sister company has a hangar at Shrevport, La and the Authoritys there consider the secure area to be in any premises on airport property that could have access to the ramp area even if across the airport from the airline area.
Their are gray areas involved where the written law and the way its interpreted might be differant so you must use your best discretion

[Charlies.Contingency]

I take it none of you have flown in your own airplane.

1. "Disarming". Please. If it takes you more than a few seconds to change from "armed" to "unarmed" as you get into and out of the plane, you might rethink your set up. You aren't disarmed anyway. You can stash the pistol, or machine gun, whatever, safely for convenient access. I flew Mooneys, a Cessna twin, Malibu and Mirage. The twin and Pipers were more spacious, but you don't sit in a Mooney as much as you wear it.

2. Unless you intend on dog fighting a la the Red Baron in mid flight, you have no need whatsoever for that gun tucked into your waist in flight. It is completely different than driving around in the car and stopping at the Stop and Rob for gas or coffee etc.

Come on, men!

You assume too much, and seem to hold yourself above the rest of us. There is no point in attempting to reason with you. What works for you is not the world's cure all.

Red: Who are YOU to tell me what I need not? I guess you can also tell what gun I NEED to wear, when to wear it, how to wear it, and what caliber. I think not. What if I am flying with a client, and I don't intend on showing them that I have a gun? Oh wait, JALLEN says I need to disarm in front of a client who may be a gun fearing liberal.

[JALLEN]

I take it none of you have flown in your own airplane.

1. "Disarming". Please. If it takes you more than a few seconds to change from "armed" to "unarmed" as you get into and out of the plane, you might rethink your set up. You aren't disarmed anyway. You can stash the pistol, or machine gun, whatever, safely for convenient access. I flew Mooneys, a Cessna twin, Malibu and Mirage. The twin and Pipers were more spacious, but you don't sit in a Mooney as much as you wear it.

2. Unless you intend on dog fighting a la the Red Baron in mid flight, you have no need whatsoever for that gun tucked into your waist in flight. It is completely different than driving around in the car and stopping at the Stop and Rob for gas or coffee etc.

Come on, men!

You assume too much, and seem to hold yourself above the rest of us. There is no point in attempting to reason with you. What works for you is not the world's cure all.

Red: Who are YOU to tell me what I need not? I guess you can also tell what gun I NEED to wear, when to wear it, how to wear it, and what caliber. I think not. What if I am flying with a client, and I don't intend on showing them that I have a gun? Oh wait, JALLEN says I need to disarm in front of a client who may be a gun fearing liberal.

You can take satisfaction secure in the knowledge that you don't have to do what I think makes sense. Like most of you, I participate here to share my experiences, read about others experiences, share what I know and learn what I don't.

If you don't approve of my suggestions, don't bother with them. You are under no compulsion or obligation. Do what makes sense for you. There is nothing in my posts suggesting that I would think of telling anyone what gun to wear, what caliber. That's nonsense. You've not attempted to reason with me AFAIK.

If you chose to have "gun fearing liberals" as clients, you may want to do things differently. I myself always tried to avoid those guys, in a 40 year career as a lawyer in gun fearing, socialist hellhole of California, and I certainly wouldn't have one riding around in my airplane. Let 'em walk! YMMV, of course.

[Keith B]

Alright, stop the bickering and discuss this civilly or the topic will be locked.