Dallas ISD Administration Building

[puma guy]

I can't speak to the Dallas ISD facility conducting classes for students in the Admin buildings and didn't read any factual info here that they do so, but I know the administration buildings in my city are just that, administration buildings. No buses deliver students, no parents pick up their children there. There's no food facility nor principle offices, clinics, institutional style bathrooms, they don't conduct fire drills all which would I think be required for a school. I doubt Dallas ISD Admin could be considered an educational institution and though really don't know with no evidence my speculation is a good as anybody's.

Our Admin Buildings had 30.06 signs posted at every entrance to the parking lots, which I had complained about and had planned to report after SB273. A week before Sept 1 they were all taken down thus saving me the trouble of reporting them.
BTW I carried in the building, even before the signs were removed.

[srothstein]

I would have to recommend against anyone carrying in an ISD administration building. As was pointed out, we generally think of it as a school but the law does say a school or educational institution. The problem is that neither of these terms is defined in the Penal Code.

The Code Construction Act says to interpret laws by using the normal usage or meaning of words unless they have been given a technical definition by the law. I was always told to look in the section of the law being questioned, then work your way up (chapter, title, code, other codes) to see how the word should be defined. This is one reason that the word intoxication defined in chapter 49 is defined for chapter 46 also.

The term educational institution is clearly not restricted to just the schools themselves. If it meant that, then the phrase school or educational institution is meaningless. So I went looking in other codes. The Education Code uses the term to mean entire agencies or institutions, such as colleges. Probably the most clear example of it meaning more is in the Utilities Code Chapter 57 where the term is defined to include such things the Texas Education Agency, the regional educational service centers, and the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board. To me, this makes a very strong argument that the term includes an ISD administration. On the counter side, since the agencies have to be included in that section, it can be argued that the term does not include them as normal usage. Someone with access to to the legislative history of this might be able to find an indicator of what was the intent and argue that too.

Since it is a gray enough area that arguments can be made either way, I recommend not carrying to avoid being the test case. You might win but you might lose and both options can be expensive. For my personal point of view, not binding on anyone but me, I think the court would find that the ISD administration building is part of the educational institution as intended by the law.

[puma guy]

I can't speak to the Dallas ISD facility conducting classes for students in the Admin buildings and didn't read any factual info here that they do so, but I know the administration buildings in my city are just that, administration buildings. No buses deliver students, no parents pick up their children there. There's no food facility nor principle offices, clinics, institutional style bathrooms, they don't conduct fire drills all which would I think be required for a school. I doubt Dallas ISD Admin could be considered an educational institution and though really don't know with no evidence my speculation is a good as anybody's.

Our Admin Buildings had 30.06 signs posted at every entrance to the parking lots, which I had complained about and had planned to report after SB273. A week before Sept 1 they were all taken down thus saving me the trouble of reporting them.

You're probably right as far as the legal issues. However, I'm an employee/prospective employee, and it is true that Dallas ISD forbids employees from possessing firearms on district property save for DISD law enforcement.

I understand your situation and wrote agreeing with you not carrying, but erased that part before I posted. I wish you good luck.

[Glockster]

I would have to recommend against anyone carrying in an ISD administration building. As was pointed out, we generally think of it as a school but the law does say a school or educational institution. The problem is that neither of these terms is defined in the Penal Code.

The Code Construction Act says to interpret laws by using the normal usage or meaning of words unless they have been given a technical definition by the law. I was always told to look in the section of the law being questioned, then work your way up (chapter, title, code, other codes) to see how the word should be defined. This is one reason that the word intoxication defined in chapter 49 is defined for chapter 46 also.

The term educational institution is clearly not restricted to just the schools themselves. If it meant that, then the phrase school or educational institution is meaningless. So I went looking in other codes. The Education Code uses the term to mean entire agencies or institutions, such as colleges. Probably the most clear example of it meaning more is in the Utilities Code Chapter 57 where the term is defined to include such things the Texas Education Agency, the regional educational service centers, and the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board. To me, this makes a very strong argument that the term includes an ISD administration. On the counter side, since the agencies have to be included in that section, it can be argued that the term does not include them as normal usage. Someone with access to to the legislative history of this might be able to find an indicator of what was the intent and argue that too.

Since it is a gray enough area that arguments can be made either way, I recommend not carrying to avoid being the test case. You might win but you might lose and both options can be expensive. For my personal point of view, not binding on anyone but me, I think the court would find that the ISD administration building is part of the educational institution as intended by the law.

So wouldn't something like this then be a good candidate for report it and let the AG make the determination?

[C-dub]

That sounds like an excellent idea short of there being a test case.