Premise Definition

[RetNavy]

http://www.eparisextra.com/911/102896/e ... g-a-weapon


saw this last night... person arrested in the parking lot of a convenience store... reading the article sounds to me that he was arrested for TABC violation.... was in his car NOT the store....

I thought the blue sign was just for inside.... not outside.... to me seems like the charge should be for an unconcealed weapon inside his vehicle

of course there is always more to the story than what is written

RetNavy

[Pariah3j]

Davis was arrested on a felony charge of unlawfully carrying a weapon on premesis where alcohol is sold.

Sounds like the cop made up a charge and went with it. The question as I see it is, could they see the weapon before they asked him out of the vehicle - aka it was concealed before he moved/exited. Would that still count as a unconcealed weapon ?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Unless there has been a change in the ABC, for people who do not have a CHL, the "premises" of a TABC licensed store includes all of the real estate. That's precisely why I defined "premises" in SB60. When SB60 passed in 1995, the term "premises" was not defined in the Penal Code or in the ABC. It was defined in TABC case law.

Chas.

[Pariah3j]

Unless there has been a change in the ABC, for people who do not have a CHL, the "premises" of a TABC licensed store includes all of the real estate. That's precisely why I defined "premises" in SB60. When SB60 passed in 1995, the term "premises" was not defined in the Penal Code or in the ABC. It was defined in TABC case law.

Chas.

Oh wow, I never realized 'premise' could mean anything other then a building legally - I thought that was the tried and true legal definition. Good to know.

[Teamless]

That's precisely why I defined "premises" in SB60. When SB60 passed in 1995, the term "premises" was not defined in the Penal Code or in the ABC. Chas.

I have never seen "premises" defined
There has been a lot of debate on school property definition of premises
if it pertains to say the running track, or football field, or other outdoors, yet on school "property", but is it "premises" as defined the TPC?

Anyone have the legal definition of Premises in relation to CHL?

[c.edgington]

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place...
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

I believe that even "school premises" would take this definition, although someone else should confirm...

[ELB]

...

I have never seen "premises" defined
...Anyone have the legal definition of Premises in relation to CHL?

{Insert usual "should have been covered in your CHL class/demand your money back" comment here}

"Premises" is defined twice in the Penal Code, once specifically with respect to CHL carry, the other for the "motorist protection act", IIRC:

Texas Penal Code, Chapter 46
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.

(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

...

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

...
(f) In this section:

...
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

[howdy]

Unless there has been a change in the ABC, for people who do not have a CHL, the "premises" of a TABC licensed store includes all of the real estate. That's precisely why I defined "premises" in SB60. When SB60 passed in 1995, the term "premises" was not defined in the Penal Code or in the ABC. It was defined in TABC case law.

Chas.

It seems this would be a good argument for us to use on someone who believes the CHL is not something they want. If they are carrying under the MPA and on a TABC property, then with this definition of "premises", they COULD be charged with a felony. So since it is case law, does that mean this person was found guilty at the District level court AND had that verdict upheld at the Appellate Court?

[ScottDLS]

Unless there has been a change in the ABC, for people who do not have a CHL, the "premises" of a TABC licensed store includes all of the real estate. That's precisely why I defined "premises" in SB60. When SB60 passed in 1995, the term "premises" was not defined in the Penal Code or in the ABC. It was defined in TABC case law.

Chas.

It seems this would be a good argument for us to use on someone who believes the CHL is not something they want. If they are carrying under the MPA and on a TABC property, then with this definition of "premises", they COULD be charged with a felony. So since it is case law, does that mean this person was found guilty at the District level court AND had that verdict upheld at the Appellate Court?

No. The felony is part of PC 46.02, which the MPA exempts you from if you meet the requirements.

[suthdj]

So if i read this correctly a walmart parking lot is off limits for MPA?

[Teamless]

Maybe I mis-stated above, or actually didn't specify properly
I have seen and do know the "building or portion..." comment, but more specifically, maybe the question should be
- is a school (outdoor) track, football, baseball, soccer, etc, considered "premises" (assuming there is NOT a school function happening)

Example: if I wanted to go see a NON-SCHOOL related function at a High School football stadium, is that premises?

using the definition of "building or portion...", I think no, it is not premises, but as you enter through a gate or fencing, does that change the thought process?