Surefire EP3 Sonic Defenders

TexAg08 · Post by **TexAg08** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:11 pm

Ok, ive searched the forum for these and found one very brief thread about them. I want to know y'alls opinion on these earplugs. When Im shooting IPSC my earmuffs make my glasses push into the side of my head, and after awhile, becomes uncomfortable. I have some foam earplugs, but its hard to talk with people when theyre in. I like what these Surefire's are promising, but I would like some of y'alls opinions first.

nuparadigm · Post by **nuparadigm** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:23 pm

This is the first I've heard of them .... but at $9.95 (on their website), I'll probably try them.
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_ ... /sesent/00

dejadoo · Post by **dejadoo** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:24 pm

Sounds interesting.

I just ordered a pair.

GlockenHammer · Post by **GlockenHammer** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:24 pm

16 dB NRR is not sufficient for gunfire, in my humble opinion.

yerasimos · Post by **yerasimos** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:42 pm

I am thinking that these Ear-Pro devices may work well to minimize the risk of hearing loss when shooting "for real", without dealing with the various complications associated with putting suppressors on guns.

Notice that these only provide 9dB of protection with the stoppers out, and 16dB with the stoppers in. For long term use, I do not believe this is enough. Unless I need to listen for a bad guy tiptoeing around, I want the highest level of hearing protection I can get. I expect some degree of hearing loss if I make it to my 70s, 80s and beyond, but I do not want to make this inevitable, genetically-programmed hearing loss any worse or give it a head start.

For conventional range practice (handgun at partial to full extension) and IDPA, I will get by with 33dB plugs, and just make sure to stand as close as possible to a speaking individual that I want to listen to. When I practice kissing-distance shooting, I use both 33dB plugs and a good pair of muffs. I have also taken to wearing goggles with an elastic headband so that the muffs do not pinch the earpieces into my head, and there is minimal gap in the muff padding. The googles are not as chic as my taste in sunglasses, but they serve their purpose without interfering with the hearing protection. I use both the googles and muffs at work, too, and always have them in my car and am accustomed to wearing them for long periods of time.

Just my opinion--take it or leave it.

TexAg08 · Post by **TexAg08** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:06 pm

According to all the sites and the few reviews that ive read, it suppresses sound differently than conventional plugs or muffs. They muffle loud noises instantly like electronic muffs, but still allow conversation without amplification.

http://www.surefire.com/pdfs/EP3_tech_copy.pdf

Read that. From what I understand from it, the louder the noise, the less likely it is to pass through the ear plugs.

Xander · Post by **Xander** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:21 pm

TexAg08 wrote:According to all the sites and the few reviews that ive read, it suppresses sound differently than conventional plugs or muffs. They muffle loud noises instantly like electronic muffs, but still allow conversation without amplification.

http://www.surefire.com/pdfs/EP3_tech_copy.pdf

Read that. From what I understand from it, the louder the noise, the less likely it is to pass through the ear plugs.

Didn't read the document (yet) but from the picture in the original post, it *looks* like it allows sound through by opening a plug of some sort, that could be closed to afford hearing protection. Is that how it actually works?

-Xander

EDIT: Read the doc, didn't seem to clear it up. The diagrams in the document didn't look exactly like the device in the image, so I'm still not sure what's going on. However, as nuparadigm says, for 10 bucks, they're sure worth a try.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:13 pm

I generally double up on hearing protection... using ~30dB earplugs and ~20dB earmuffs. Thats ~50dB of total protection.

Of course I do shoot rifles and MG's indoors

... for MG's indoors I like to bump it up to ~30dB earmuffs. There is a notable difference between ~50dB and ~60dB when you're doing that kind of thing.

More on hearing protection here:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... protection

NIOSH recommends that hunters and shooters use double hearing protection each and every time a weapon is fired. Double protection involves wearing both earplugs and earmuffs. The best combination is a deeply inserted foam earplug and a well-seated earmuff.

Bob Wolff · Post by **Bob Wolff** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:32 pm

Paladin
I am the Environmental, Health and Safety Manager at a local manufacturing facility. Our plant has noise levels of 104 db.

Actually you only gain 3 - 6 db benefit when wearing muff and plug combination.

The biggest failure I see and deal with is failure to wear or use correctly.

Bob

Example:
If you use an earmuff with 29 dB NRR and an earplug with 29 dB NRR, the estimated protection is 32 dB. The physical energy of noise doubles with every three decibels. This is a physical fact. So if you place two machines producing 90 dB of noise, next to each others, you will end up with a noise level of 93 dB. In the same manner if you double up protection you will gain 3 dB.

The above is an estimation, and both protectors have to be used correctly to achieve this result. There have been some laboratory reports indicating that as much as 6 dB can be gained from combined hearing protection. However, in real life situations, it is probably safe to assume 3 dB.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:21 pm

Bob,

While you are quite correct about the additive effect of adding noise sources, you may want to read up on the CDC website about the effects hearing protection.

The combination of an earmuff and a deeply-inserted foam earplug can provide as much as 50 dB of peak reduction

http://www2a.cdc.gov/hp-devices/huntershooters.html

I'll admit that OSHA has their own formula that you appear to be going off of, but OSHA's rule appears to be more of a rule of thumb than anything close to scientific. According to OSHA's formula, wearing 29dB plugs plus 29dB muffs gives you a combined 27dB [29-7+5] of protection... How your protection is reduced by adding another layer of protection is a mystery only they can answer.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noise/ ... ation.html

Bob Wolff · Post by **Bob Wolff** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:17 pm

Paladin
OSHA's exposure and calculations are based upon a time waited (8 hour) exposure. Read the NIOSH info, kind of comparing apples and oranges.

Don't get me wrong, I also wear double protection (3 gun matches as SO). Double hearing protection provides a higher level of protection. Most people wear their hearing protection incorrectly, i.e. not inserted properly (they work their way out with every spoken word and when moving around) and with muffs not properly sealed around the ear.

Hearing loss is cumlative with every overexposure both at home & work.

I applaud your efforts to protect your hearing for later in life.

Stay safe
BOB

Operators Edge · Post by **Operators Edge** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:28 pm

I have used these for awhile now and love them. I took 50 of them to a SWAT match and sold out. Everyone who HAS used them really likes them. Diode, on the forums here, has used them as well.