Tupp's Brewery McKinney - 51% sign

[n5wmk]

Tupp's Brewery in McKinney recently posted 51% signs (English & Spanish), taped to the outside of the metal doors at the entrance. They have a bar set up inside, and do sell their product for on-premises consumption. However, according to the TABC website, they have no gun sign requirements. Copy of the TABC info is below. I have been in there before while carrying concealed (and not consuming their product) and also not armed, and having a couple of beverages. The sign was not there the first few times, but appeared recently.

I*m not sure how they're selling the beer without a license, unless the bar is operating under another name. But a search using just the physical address without the business name brings up the same results.

I don't want to create a problem for a good local business with a good product, but I also like to be armed whenever I can be. I believe the sign is invalid, however, based on their license requirements.

Thoughts?

N5WMK


License #: B 898319

Trade Name: TUPPS BREWERY
Owner: TUPPS BREWERY LLC
Location Address:
721 ANDERSON
MCKINNEY , TX 75069
Mailing Address:
1911 RISING STAR
ALLEN , TX 75013
County: Collin Orig. Issue Date: 2/13/2015
Status: Current Exp. Date: 2/12/2017
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: 214-704-5039
Subordinates: DA,O
Related To: Gun Sign:

[srothstein]

They do not have a gun sign reference on the license because they are not legally allowed to sell alcohol for retail consumption. They can only sell to a retailer. The B indicates they have a brewery license, which is just for manufacture. The DA subordinate license says they can self-distribute, which means they can sell to a retailer with a license instead of having to first sell to a wholesaler. The O subordinate license is a private carrier license which means they can deliver the beer tot eh retailer themselves.

All breweries are allowed to dispense their product for consumption on premises, just not allowed to sell it. This is how you can get a free tasting when you go for a tour of a brewery.

CAVEAT: I have not worked for TABC in a few years and the laws and rules may have changed since I learned them. This is based on what was in effect when I worked there.

[ELB]

They do not have a gun sign reference on the license because they are not legally allowed to sell alcohol for retail consumption....All breweries are allowed to dispense their product for consumption on premises, just not allowed to sell it. ...

Noting the caveats, then this would mean the 51% sign is illegally posted and invalid, yes?

And if they are selling drinks, versus offering tastings, then they are even illegaller?

[SigM4]

A lot of it is semantics. Are they offering a $10 "tour" that comes with two free drinks? If so then they're technically not selling their product.

[n5wmk]

They do not have a gun sign reference on the license because they are not legally allowed to sell alcohol for retail consumption.

That was my thought - I had a similar question on this forum a couple of years ago, after a visit to the Spoetzel Brewery in Shiner. They gave free samples, but yet had a 51% sign posted on the mirrors behind the bar.

But Tupp's definitely charges for what they serve on premises. I've bought a number of drinks using both cash and plastic cards. Just curious how they're getting by with selling without a TABC license. Thanks for explaining what the DA and O mean, was wondering about that.

SigM4 - no "tour fee". You go up to the bar, order your choice, take it to a table. Repeat if desired. They charge by the drink - so the cost per person varies.

[RoyGBiv]

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/code/8 ... Titles.pdf

CHAPTER 12. BREWER'S PERMIT (B)
Sec. 12.01. AUTHORIZED ACTIVITIES. (a) The holder of a brewer's permit may:
(1) manufacture, bottle, package, and label malt liquor;
(2) import ale and malt liquor acquired from a holder of a nonresident brewer's permit;
(3) sell the ale and malt liquor only to wholesale permit holders in this state or to qualified persons outside the state;
(4) dispense ale and malt liquor for consumption on the premises;
(5) conduct samplings of ale or malt liquor, including tastings, at a retailer's premises; and
(6) enter into an alternating brewery proprietorship or contract brewing arrangement as provided by Section 12.06.

..................

Sec. 12.052. SALES BY CERTAIN BREWERS TO CONSUMERS. (a) In addition to the activities authorized by Section 12.01, the holder of a brewer's permit whose annual production of ale together with the annual production of beer by the holder of a manufacturer's license at the same premises does not exceed a total of 225,000 barrels may sell ale produced on the brewer's premises under the permit to ultimate consumers on the brewer's premises for responsible consumption on the brewer's premises.
(b) The total combined sales of ale to ultimate consumers under this section, together with the sales of beer to ultimate consumers by the holder of a manufacturer's license under Section 62.122 at the same premises, may not exceed 5,000 barrels annually.

[srothstein]

Thanks RoyGBiv. That clause was was what I missed with the new laws since I worked there. But if we note the limit that makes it clear that a 51% sign is most likely improper. They can only sell 5,000 barrels but can make 225,000, so it is highly unlikely that the 5,000 is more than 51%. I guess it could be if they only make 7,500 barrels or so, but I doubt that would occur. The TABC would almost definitely make them get a brewpub license then, which is a retail seller's license for those places that brew their own craft beers to sell in their pub but not distribute to stores.

[RoyGBiv]

Thanks RoyGBiv. That clause was was what I missed with the new laws since I worked there. But if we note the limit that makes it clear that a 51% sign is most likely improper. They can only sell 5,000 barrels but can make 225,000, so it is highly unlikely that the 5,000 is more than 51%. I guess it could be if they only make 7,500 barrels or so, but I doubt that would occur. The TABC would almost definitely make them get a brewpub license then, which is a retail seller's license for those places that brew their own craft beers to sell in their pub but not distribute to stores.

I'm just guessing here... but since the B license does not imply "retail", per-se, a specific gun-sign rule to cover retail sales at a B-licensed location has probably just not been addressed yet...

I could argue both sides....
A. Since your business at this location is primarily manufacturing and distribution, and only a small fractin is sold to retail customers, the location is less than 51%
..........or.
B. Since >51% of the "Retail" business at this location is alcohol sales, the retail portion of the establishment is off limits for CC.

[Scott Farkus]

Yeah, the laws changed a couple of sessions ago which allows these small breweries to sell at the brewery. It's led to quite an expansion of microbreweries and almost all of them now have some type of tap room at the brewery that's open to the public at least two or three days a week, sometimes more. All in all that was good for the industry but yeah, it kinda confuses the 51% issue. Of course this particular room (or, more commonly, just a roped off small section) of the brewery makes virtually 100% of THAT revenue from on-premise consumption, but it's a proverbial drop in the bucket compared to what they sell through distributors and/or retailers.

All the more reason to get behind HB308 next year and do away with this 51% nonsense altogether.

[Pariah3j]

Couldn't you contact the TABC and get clarification on if a brewery can post red 51% signs?
I've heard they don't take wrongly posted signs lightly ... I've heard anecdotally of liquor/convenience stores getting licences pulled over red sign shenanigans