Is Verbal Notice Monitored?

[Ryan]

So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant. How does that exactly work? How do businesses know who they've given verbal notice to? Is there a process for this where they take your name or license number or something? Is there a verbal notice database? Or could you essentially be given "verbal notice" numerous times provided you aren't recognized? I'm curious...

[WildBill]

So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant. How does that exactly work? How do businesses know who they've given verbal notice to? Is there a process for this where they take your name or license number or something? Is there a verbal notice database? Or could you essentially be given "verbal notice" numerous times provided you aren't recognized? I'm curious...

If the owner calls the police, there will be a report written that will be evidence of effective notice.
I would think that most owners would call the police if this person came back and was recognized.
Of course many businesses have security cameras too.

[Jusme]

So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant. How does that exactly work? How do businesses know who they've given verbal notice to? Is there a process for this where they take your name or license number or something? Is there a verbal notice database? Or could you essentially be given "verbal notice" numerous times provided you aren't recognized? I'm curious...

They will know if I have been given verbal notice because I will be at their competitors spending money.

[rotor]

If you are carrying concealed how would they know? If you carried open they might ask you to leave or to conceal. Unless you live in a very small town I can't see that they would remember you. I usually tip pretty good at a restaurant but virtually never see the same waiter twice and none of them rushes up to be my server. None of these places can legally demand your id to keep you from coming back. If they really don't want your business they need to put signs up. The final thought is that today they may not want LTC people but that doesn't mean in the future they won't welcome you. As long as they have a sign they are serious. Otherwise who knows.

[Solaris]

So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant. How does that exactly work? How do businesses know who they've given verbal notice to? Is there a process for this where they take your name or license number or something? Is there a verbal notice database? Or could you essentially be given "verbal notice" numerous times provided you aren't recognized? I'm curious...

06/07 does not mean you can't come back. In fact it does not even mean you have to leave. You just have to stop carrying under authority of LTC. So there is really no need to remember. Obviously if you keep coming back and they keep giving you notice you will be remembered.

[Soccerdad1995]

So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant. How does that exactly work? How do businesses know who they've given verbal notice to? Is there a process for this where they take your name or license number or something? Is there a verbal notice database? Or could you essentially be given "verbal notice" numerous times provided you aren't recognized? I'm curious...

06/07 does not mean you can't come back. In fact it does not even mean you have to leave. You just have to stop carrying under authority of LTC. So there is really no need to remember. Obviously if you keep coming back and they keep giving you notice you will be remembered.

I think the concern is probably more applicable to OC at a place like Whataburger where they are not posting signs, but are telling people that they can't OC there. Technically, one would be guilty of a crime if they were told not to OC and then came back in OC'ing.

That said, as long as the initial encounter was uneventful, I highly doubt that the manager at that location would even remember that this is the same person they talked to before. Things might be different if it was the day before or the person acted like a real jerk when they were initially told no OC.

Obviously, if the police were called at the time of the initial verbal notice, then something went very, very, wrong (OC'er refusing to cover up or leave, or manager making a false police complaint because they incorrectly thought their sign was 30.07 compliant, or whatever). In that type of situation, the OC'er is much more likely to be recognized, and it is much more likely that there is a record of the effective notice.

[WildBill]

So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant. How does that exactly work? How do businesses know who they've given verbal notice to? Is there a process for this where they take your name or license number or something? Is there a verbal notice database? Or could you essentially be given "verbal notice" numerous times provided you aren't recognized? I'm curious...

06/07 does not mean you can't come back. In fact it does not even mean you have to leave. You just have to stop carrying under authority of LTC. So there is really no need to remember. Obviously if you keep coming back and they keep giving you notice you will be remembered.

A person could be banned from coming back, armed or not.
For example if the person were being rude or obnoxious the store owner/manager could tell him not to come back to the store.
If that person did come back he could be arresting for trespass.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/legal-ri ... 65571.html

[Solaris]

So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant. How does that exactly work? How do businesses know who they've given verbal notice to? Is there a process for this where they take your name or license number or something? Is there a verbal notice database? Or could you essentially be given "verbal notice" numerous times provided you aren't recognized? I'm curious...

06/07 does not mean you can't come back. In fact it does not even mean you have to leave. You just have to stop carrying under authority of LTC. So there is really no need to remember. Obviously if you keep coming back and they keep giving you notice you will be remembered.

A person could be banned from coming back, armed or not.
For example if the person were being rude or obnoxious the store owner/manager could tell him not to come back to the store.
If that person did come back he could be arresting for trespass.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/legal-ri ... 65571.html

Yes, they could but that was not the question.

[WildBill]

So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant. How does that exactly work? How do businesses know who they've given verbal notice to? Is there a process for this where they take your name or license number or something? Is there a verbal notice database? Or could you essentially be given "verbal notice" numerous times provided you aren't recognized? I'm curious...

06/07 does not mean you can't come back. In fact it does not even mean you have to leave. You just have to stop carrying under authority of LTC. So there is really no need to remember. Obviously if you keep coming back and they keep giving you notice you will be remembered.

A person could be banned from coming back, armed or not.
For example if the person were being rude or obnoxious the store owner/manager could tell him not to come back to the store.
If that person did come back he could be arresting for trespass.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/legal-ri ... 65571.html

Yes, they could but that was not the question.

I was not trying to answer the question.
I already did that in my first post.
I thought this was a discussion about hypothetical situations.

[Solaris]

I was not trying to answer the question.
I already did that in my first post.
I thought this was a discussion about hypothetical situations.

Yes, 06/07 hypothetical questions not 05 hypothetical questions.

"So hypothetically speaking, let's say you are given verbal notice for 06/07 at a restaurant."

[Pariah3j]

I took verbal notice to be good for that encounter/visit. I think if you were given verbal notice on say Monday. You come back a week later, still no sign so you OC into the store, they would have to give you notice again. I don't remember seeing anywhere that once given notice, you can't carry there again.

[jimd1981]

I'd be very careful with that assumption. Verbal notice is verbal notice. Consider it a 30.06/07 sign just for you.
If you were notified with some time-limit imposed, that would be part of the notice you were given.
Did the proprietor say "You can't carry a gun in here"
...or did he say "You can't carry a gun in here today, but next Tuesday, and any random day after that, is okay!"

With all due respect to the poster

I think that, in any case where you are given verbal notice (06/07 Notice), you need to remember.
In a very real sense, you are the monitor and it's up to you to respect the wishes of the establishment and not do it again.
It has been said that "the measure of someone’s character is what they would do if they never would be found out."

"Someone" would always know if you were carrying concealed in a place where you were given verbal notice.
Even if concealed means concealed, and you are the only person in that room.

If the police come by, and the proprietor remembers for you, you could lose your license. No "Class C" charge for blowing by verbal notice.

[WildBill]

I took verbal notice to be good for that encounter/visit. I think if you were given verbal notice on say Monday. You come back a week later, still no sign so you OC into the store, they would have to give you notice again. I don't remember seeing anywhere that once given notice, you can't carry there again.

Charles Cotton made a post that basically stated that verbal notice was forever.

I tend to believe him. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... l#p1036591

[Skiprr]

I took verbal notice to be good for that encounter/visit. I think if you were given verbal notice on say Monday. You come back a week later, still no sign so you OC into the store, they would have to give you notice again. I don't remember seeing anywhere that once given notice, you can't carry there again.

Charles Cotton made a post that basically stated that verbal notice was forever.

I tend to believe him. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... l#p1036591

Yep. Neither 30.05 through 30.07 give any implication that effective notice is applicable to only the current, or a given, visit to the establishment. Once you have received effective notice, you have received effective notice.

To the OP: Could you keep coming back into an establishment after having received oral notice, each time wearing a new disguise, and get away with it? Maybe. Would it be legal or ethical for you to do so? No. Doesn't matter if there's an oral-notice database. As an LTC holder, you are obligated--and expected by your peers--to follow the law.

BTW, a pet peeve. "Verbal" means "relating to or in the form of words." That's either written or spoken words. Either or.

That's why the term "verbal" appears nowhere in Section 30 of the Texas Penal Code. Section 30 makes it clear there are two forms of notice: written or oral.

Both are verbal.

[WildBill]

I took verbal notice to be good for that encounter/visit. I think if you were given verbal notice on say Monday. You come back a week later, still no sign so you OC into the store, they would have to give you notice again. I don't remember seeing anywhere that once given notice, you can't carry there again.

Charles Cotton made a post that basically stated that verbal notice was forever.

I tend to believe him. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... l#p1036591

Yep. Neither 30.05 through 30.07 give any implication that effective notice is applicable to only the current, or a given, visit to the establishment. Once you have received effective notice, you have received effective notice.

To the OP: Could you keep coming back into an establishment after having received oral notice, each time wearing a new disguise, and get away with it? Maybe. Would it be legal or ethical for you to do so? No. Doesn't matter if there's an oral-notice database. As an LTC holder, you are obligated--and expected by your peers--to follow the law.

BTW, a pet peeve. "Verbal" means "relating to or in the form of words." That's either written or spoken words. Either or.

That's why the term "verbal" appears nowhere in Section 30 of the Texas Penal Code. Section 30 makes it clear there are two forms of notice: written or oral.

Both are verbal.

Thanks for the reminder. I tend to use the word "verbal" rather than "oral".