Valid 30.06 sign but no 30.07 sign - what to do?

[mikeb95]

I carry concealed and have noticed recently that a lot of places will have a 30.06 sign up but not a 30.07 sign (Pleasure Pier in Galveston this last weekend is one). Does this mean that if I am carrying and see the 30.06 sign but not the 30.07 sign that I can just tuck my shirt to expose my pistol and not commit an offense at that time?

[RogueUSMC]

Until given oral notice.

[goose]

Until given oral notice.

This. Expose your pistol and expect to either talk to a manager or a police officer. When asked to leave, do so promptly.

[Solaris]

I carry concealed and have noticed recently that a lot of places will have a 30.06 sign up but not a 30.07 sign (Pleasure Pier in Galveston this last weekend is one). Does this mean that if I am carrying and see the 30.06 sign but not the 30.07 sign that I can just tuck my shirt to expose my pistol and not commit an offense at that time?

This creates an interesting issue. How much do you have to expose your pistol to be open carry?

For example, you see 30.06 and you blow past it, unbuttoning your jacket to expose your OWB handgun. This would clearly be failure to conceal under the old law, so the argument could be made it is not concealed carry, thus it must be open carry and there is no sign. But 99.99% of folks never see it .....

[Soccerdad1995]

I carry concealed and have noticed recently that a lot of places will have a 30.06 sign up but not a 30.07 sign (Pleasure Pier in Galveston this last weekend is one). Does this mean that if I am carrying and see the 30.06 sign but not the 30.07 sign that I can just tuck my shirt to expose my pistol and not commit an offense at that time?

This creates an interesting issue. How much do you have to expose your pistol to be open carry?

For example, you see 30.06 and you blow past it, unbuttoning your jacket to expose your OWB handgun. This would clearly be failure to conceal under the old law, so the argument could be made it is not concealed carry, thus it must be open carry and there is no sign. But 99.99% of folks never see it .....

Or exposing 1/4 inch of the handle of your weapon. Interesting thought experiment that really comes down to your willingness to go to court to try and beat your $200 ticket.

As far as Pleasure Pier. Carry away. You are not violating any laws by carrying concealed there, but the governmental owners of that property are violating the law.

[rotor]

Remember though that you would need your gun in a belt or shoulder holster to carry open. I realize most people carry concealed on a belt but not everyone does.

[Solaris]

I carry concealed and have noticed recently that a lot of places will have a 30.06 sign up but not a 30.07 sign (Pleasure Pier in Galveston this last weekend is one). Does this mean that if I am carrying and see the 30.06 sign but not the 30.07 sign that I can just tuck my shirt to expose my pistol and not commit an offense at that time?

This creates an interesting issue. How much do you have to expose your pistol to be open carry?

For example, you see 30.06 and you blow past it, unbuttoning your jacket to expose your OWB handgun. This would clearly be failure to conceal under the old law, so the argument could be made it is not concealed carry, thus it must be open carry and there is no sign. But 99.99% of folks never see it .....

Or exposing 1/4 inch of the handle of your weapon. Interesting thought experiment that really comes down to your willingness to go to court to try and beat your $200 ticket.

What ticket? If you are seen carrying gun, it is obviously open carry which was not posted. No ticket for that.

[Soccerdad1995]

I carry concealed and have noticed recently that a lot of places will have a 30.06 sign up but not a 30.07 sign (Pleasure Pier in Galveston this last weekend is one). Does this mean that if I am carrying and see the 30.06 sign but not the 30.07 sign that I can just tuck my shirt to expose my pistol and not commit an offense at that time?

This creates an interesting issue. How much do you have to expose your pistol to be open carry?

For example, you see 30.06 and you blow past it, unbuttoning your jacket to expose your OWB handgun. This would clearly be failure to conceal under the old law, so the argument could be made it is not concealed carry, thus it must be open carry and there is no sign. But 99.99% of folks never see it .....

Or exposing 1/4 inch of the handle of your weapon. Interesting thought experiment that really comes down to your willingness to go to court to try and beat your $200 ticket.

What ticket? If you are seen carrying gun, it is obviously open carry which was not posted. No ticket for that.

A ticket is not a final judgment. It is merely a summons to appear in court for a minor offense. I have received tickets where I was not guilty of any offense. It does happen, and a lot of folks really worry about the possibility of getting a ticket for something that is not illegal.

[ScottDLS]

Carry concealed because the Pleasure Pier is City owned and the 30.06 sign is not valid. And I suspect it has the wrong wording too if it wasn't updated in January. Regardless, it's irrelevant.

[Solaris]

I carry concealed and have noticed recently that a lot of places will have a 30.06 sign up but not a 30.07 sign (Pleasure Pier in Galveston this last weekend is one). Does this mean that if I am carrying and see the 30.06 sign but not the 30.07 sign that I can just tuck my shirt to expose my pistol and not commit an offense at that time?

This creates an interesting issue. How much do you have to expose your pistol to be open carry?

For example, you see 30.06 and you blow past it, unbuttoning your jacket to expose your OWB handgun. This would clearly be failure to conceal under the old law, so the argument could be made it is not concealed carry, thus it must be open carry and there is no sign. But 99.99% of folks never see it .....

Or exposing 1/4 inch of the handle of your weapon. Interesting thought experiment that really comes down to your willingness to go to court to try and beat your $200 ticket.

What ticket? If you are seen carrying gun, it is obviously open carry which was not posted. No ticket for that.

A ticket is not a final judgment. It is merely a summons to appear in court for a minor offense. I have received tickets where I was not guilty of any offense. It does happen, and a lot of folks really worry about the possibility of getting a ticket for something that is not illegal.

Again, what ticket? If nobody sees your gun, there is no ticket, and if somebody does see it, there is no ticket because OC is allowed. Never mind it would have to be a Peace Officer to issue the ticket. I think more people get hit by lightning than would get ticketed for this.

[goose]

Again, what ticket? If nobody sees your gun, there is no ticket, and if somebody does see it, there is no ticket because OC is allowed. Never mind it would have to be a Peace Officer to issue the ticket. I think more people get hit by lightning than would get ticketed for this.

How in Hades did we make it to June without this thought already being hashed out!!! (I am also open to the idea that i just missed the discussion.)
This is a good riddle. IF an establishment is posted 30.06 but not 30.07 AND you are somehow found out, what is the charge?

Granted this is nit picking and hair splitting, etc, etc, but it is an interesting question. How could you be found out unless you were "open carry"-ing, so to speak. I suspect very few of us would really be trying to push the envelope that far but it is fun to think about from the theoretical standpoint.

[Soccerdad1995]

I carry concealed and have noticed recently that a lot of places will have a 30.06 sign up but not a 30.07 sign (Pleasure Pier in Galveston this last weekend is one). Does this mean that if I am carrying and see the 30.06 sign but not the 30.07 sign that I can just tuck my shirt to expose my pistol and not commit an offense at that time?

This creates an interesting issue. How much do you have to expose your pistol to be open carry?

For example, you see 30.06 and you blow past it, unbuttoning your jacket to expose your OWB handgun. This would clearly be failure to conceal under the old law, so the argument could be made it is not concealed carry, thus it must be open carry and there is no sign. But 99.99% of folks never see it .....

Or exposing 1/4 inch of the handle of your weapon. Interesting thought experiment that really comes down to your willingness to go to court to try and beat your $200 ticket.

What ticket? If you are seen carrying gun, it is obviously open carry which was not posted. No ticket for that.

A ticket is not a final judgment. It is merely a summons to appear in court for a minor offense. I have received tickets where I was not guilty of any offense. It does happen, and a lot of folks really worry about the possibility of getting a ticket for something that is not illegal.

Again, what ticket? If nobody sees your gun, there is no ticket, and if somebody does see it, there is no ticket because OC is allowed. Never mind it would have to be a Peace Officer to issue the ticket. I think more people get hit by lightning than would get ticketed for this.

Your right. I probably should have said "potential ticket" in my post.

For clarity, "it all comes down to your willingness to beat a $200 potential ticket, that you might be issued by a LEO if someone sees your weapon (which needs to be visible by law), and notifies a LEO, and the LEO believes that there is probable cause that you may be violating the requirements of the relevant statutes, and decides to issue you a ticket instead of a warning."

I would say that you are somewhat more likely to at least get a ticket in this hypothetical than you would be if you did not try to conceal any portion of the gun, since this is sounding more and more like a nuance that a judge should decide instead of a LEO. You are also likely to get effective notice from the property owners at some point in the process.

This is all ignoring the specific question on Pleasure Pier where the sign is not valid since the property is government owned.

[Soccerdad1995]

Again, what ticket? If nobody sees your gun, there is no ticket, and if somebody does see it, there is no ticket because OC is allowed. Never mind it would have to be a Peace Officer to issue the ticket. I think more people get hit by lightning than would get ticketed for this.

How in Hades did we make it to June without this thought already being hashed out!!! (I am also open to the idea that i just missed the discussion.)
This is a good riddle. IF an establishment is posted 30.06 but not 30.07 AND you are somehow found out, what is the charge?

Granted this is nit picking and hair splitting, etc, etc, but it is an interesting question. How could you be found out unless you were "open carry"-ing, so to speak. I suspect very few of us would really be trying to push the envelope that far but it is fun to think about from the theoretical standpoint.

I'm thinking maybe extreme "printing" or a momentary exposure of an otherwise concealed handgun. Ultimately, it might well come down to arguments in front of a judge. Without visual evidence, it might be hard for a prosecutor to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your weapon was in fact concealed. I know that I would definitely be calling the person who noticed my weapon as a witness to show that my weapon was obviously not concealed.

I just thought of another interesting example. What if I have an open muzzle holster and I wear a slightly too short shirt so that only a small fraction of the end of my gun's barrel is exposed? Is that open carry (fine at a place that is only posted 30.06), or concealed carry (fine at a 30.07 only posted location)? Clearly it has to be one or the other, right?

[Solaris]

Granted this is nit picking and hair splitting, etc, etc, but it is an interesting question. How could you be found out unless you were "open carry"-ing, so to speak. I suspect very few of us would really be trying to push the envelope that far but it is fun to think about from the theoretical standpoint.

I was not trying to split hairs. As I wrote, in my example the gun was clearly visible such that, "This would clearly be failure to conceal under the old law". You were basically taking advantage of the fact that most folks are oblivious to the surroundings around them, and you could get in and out (legally) from the 30.06 place without being noticed. My example is more retail store oriented than a pleasure destination, where you might stay for several hours...

[goose]

Granted this is nit picking and hair splitting, etc, etc, but it is an interesting question. How could you be found out unless you were "open carry"-ing, so to speak. I suspect very few of us would really be trying to push the envelope that far but it is fun to think about from the theoretical standpoint.

I was not trying to split hairs. As I wrote, in my example the gun was clearly visible such that, "This would clearly be failure to conceal under the old law". You were basically taking advantage of the fact that most folks are oblivious to the surroundings around them, and you could get in and out (legally) from the 30.06 place without being noticed. My example is more retail store oriented than a pleasure destination, where you might stay for several hours...

To clarify. I meant that the discussion as I described it was splitting hairs. I did not mean to infer or imply that your comments were. I thought your point was interesting and potentially valid from a legal defense standpoint.