Blackjacks

Chickenman · Post by **Chickenman** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:33 pm

Just returned from Hobby airport and saw a policeman that had a blackjack tucked into his back pocket. I know he is authorized.

It just reminded me of the ole boys (local authorities) in South Texas that carried a 1911 tucked into their belt and pants without a holster and their blackjacks.

Question: In Texas is a blackjack considered a weapon? How is one used? I think you could easily crack someone's skull if not careful.

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:51 pm

A black jack or slap jack is an illegal weapon as is any other club.

KRM45 · Post by **KRM45** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:53 pm

A "Blackjack" falls under the definition of a club in the penal code.
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/do ... m#46.01.00

I belive you can be charged with UCW for carrying one...

flintknapper · Post by **flintknapper** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:02 pm

We called them "Saps" back in the early '70's

I did a little "bouncing" (3 nights a week) at a night club in Austin when I was in college, we all had Saps. They must be used with the utmost care and used sparingly.

I suspect they are illegal altogether now.

Two years of babysitting drunks was all I could stand.

Post by **carlson1** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:04 pm

In the early 80's we called them "slappers." I still have my first one.

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:37 pm

[quote="flintknapper"]

I suspect they are illegal altogether now.
/quote]

I don't know about illegal but no PD in Jefferson County will allow them. The ASP is the way to go now.

gregthehand · Post by **gregthehand** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:10 am

The problem with carrying one as a peace officer in Texas is that you can't get TCLEOSE certified for it. Anything that can basically be done as a peace officer here is basically under the premise that you get certified. When I went through the Academy you had to quallify with your pistol, shotgun, and your ASP. You also have to get certified to be able to shoot radar in your car. As far as I know you can't get one for a blackjack. While legal to own in your home, or soon in your car (although I don't know why you would want it there) there are a lot more suited intermediate weapons you can use.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:11 am

gregthehand wrote:The problem with carrying one as a peace officer in Texas is that you can't get TCLEOSE certified for it. Anything that can basically be done as a peace officer here is basically under the premise that you get certified. When I went through the Academy you had to quallify with your pistol, shotgun, and your ASP. You also have to get certified to be able to shoot radar in your car. As far as I know you can't get one for a blackjack. While legal to own in your home, or soon in your car (although I don't know why you would want it there) there are a lot more suited intermediate weapons you can use.

TCLEOSE certification is not required to carry non-firearm weapons , or even to run radar.

HankB · Post by **HankB** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:50 pm

When I was living in Chicago, DIY saps were usually made out of flexible, vinyl-covered electrical conduit with a heavy metal cap on at least one end. Kept in a box under your car seat with a few other items - wire and such - it was plausibly deniable as a home improvement item, unlike a real blackjack, large knife, brass knuckles or a billy club.

One police officer I briefly encountered (Uhhh . . . a friendly encounter, OK?) had, IIRC, a 5-cell MagLite he'd converted to a 3-cell . . . the rear two batteries and end cap had been replaced with a spring and a heavy lead weight. When he swung the flashlight from the head, the motion caused the spring - with the lead weight at the end - to extend, and imparted a whiplike motion to the lead weight. (Maybe it was a 4-cell converted to 2 . . . it's been a long time.)

His two-word term for it was very un-PC, and no doubt would be considered unacceptable for this forum.

Such a device would have no plausible deniability, and today would give the person simply carrying it - let alone using it - more legal problems than he's likely to find comfortable.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:22 pm

HankB wrote:When I was living in Chicago, DIY saps were usually made out of flexible, vinyl-covered electrical conduit with a heavy metal cap on at least one end.

I had a hammer and a box of nails. My mother-in-law was forever asking me to do minor repairs when we visited.

When I was a kid, the Chicago police carried for-real blackjacks -- a thing that looked like a large, rubber baby rattle with shot in one end.

- Jim

Rokyudai · Post by **Rokyudai** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:34 pm

I remember as a child when my father would come in from his midnight shift as a LEO. This was the only thing next to the handcuffs he would let me look at. Those blackjacks are usually lead core with a tough sewn leather cover. They are deadly but I recall my father saying if it had to be used, it was mostly on soft/nonbone areas (back of legs,calf, biceps you get the idea) of the body. Also, don't bother carrying one its illegal but nothing says you cant have a big D cell maglight in the car! My father always said this came in handy more than once (and not for lighting the way).

gregthehand · Post by **gregthehand** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:39 pm

txinvestigator wrote: TCLEOSE certification is not required to carry non-firearm weapons , or even to run radar.

While I don't want to hijack the thread I wasn't saying it was law. I have the TCLEOSE certificates from when I took those classes. It may not be law but I'm betting it's policy.

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:26 pm

gregthehand wrote:
txinvestigator wrote: TCLEOSE certification is not required to carry non-firearm weapons , or even to run radar.
While I don't want to hijack the thread I wasn't saying it was law. I have the TCLEOSE certificates from when I took those classes. It may not be law but I'm betting it's policy.

Many departments have policies requiring certification, and the classes are usually given TCLEOSE credit, but there is no TCLEOSE certification for any of these.

Interestingly enough, even though TCLEOSE does not certify it, there is a law requiring TCLEOSE training to run radar (Transportation Code 644.001(d) ).

But to get back to the original post, the proper way to use a slap (as I was taught anyway) was to not hit the person with it directly. You held it in your fist with the lead ball part sticking up. You would then swing your fist at the person, hitting him with the knuckles. If you did this properly, the lead lump would then swing into the person's head to knock him out.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:40 pm

srothstein wrote:[
Interestingly enough, even though TCLEOSE does not certify it, there is a law requiring TCLEOSE training to run radar (Transportation Code 644.001(d) ).

?? Although I don't doubt that the law may have changed since I was in, but 644 is COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS. Could ya point me to the specific section, or general area? I would like to see the specifics.

Xander · Post by **Xander** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:45 pm

txinvestigator wrote:
srothstein wrote:[
Interestingly enough, even though TCLEOSE does not certify it, there is a law requiring TCLEOSE training to run radar (Transportation Code 644.001(d) ).

?? Although I don't doubt that the law may have changed since I was in, but 644 is COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS. Could ya point me to the specific section, or general area? I would like to see the specifics.

Slight typo. 644.101(d)

Â§ 644.101. CERTIFICATION OF CERTAIN PEACE OFFICERS.
(d) A sheriff, a deputy sheriff, or any peace officer that
does not attend continuing education courses on the enforcement of
traffic and highway laws and on the use of radar[0] equipment as
prescribed by Subchapter F, Chapter 1701, Occupations Code, shall
not enforce traffic and highway laws.

Edit: Ha! I managed to misspell "typo".