Telling an LEO you have their back / can help

[goose]

I realize that this topic is a million scenarios wide and as many deep. I have been pondering the topic of offering an officer assistance in their time of need. I have been pondering this for a while, but the excellent article about the gentleman in Ohio got me to post.

My general question is for active/former LEO. Generally speaking, what can or should we say to communicate that we are on your side?

In the heat of battle in the article above it was very obvious who was helping whom. Hopefully any interaction with an officer and a BG would go that smoothly and that successfully.

A couple of scenarios:
Scenario 1) I think of the infamous LA bank shoot out where officers needed long guns. If a person had the ability to help it could still be very dangerous for the officer and the civilian trying to help unless good communication and/or understanding was had by all. In LA, running towards an officer carrying an AR would not have likely ended well. But they desperately needed long guns. To me this is kind of easy if you could find cover near an officer and without gun in hand yell something to the affect of "I have a truck gun you could use, do you want me to go get it?" They can then tell you what to do. Granted, you are hoping an officer out of earshot doesn't see you carrying a long gun and think that you are a bad guy.

Scenario 2) Officer is behind cover and could use extra eyes/ears/firepower. Could be a mall shooting, whatever. I assume with pistol still holstered you yell at the officer your CHL and armament status, etc, and ask them if they want help? Then react according to their wishes?

Scenario 3) Any number of scenarios where an officer might be trying to deescalate a situation and a civilian butting in is the last thing the officer needs. But they might could use someone having their back. I'm thinking of an officer addressing a group of drunks while (s)he is outnumbered and not likely near other officers, out at the lake or similar.

I guess for me this kind of revolves around our discussions/teasing about a CHL badge/tiara/sash. What can I do best to communicate a willingness to help, as well as a high likelihood that I am not a BG fixing to add to the officer's mess? Sometimes, it may be a simple as which side of cover we're all on. Good guys here; bad guys there. Sometimes it might be as complicated as an officer not comfortable with a civilian having a firearm out no matter how bad it is. My thought being an officer, rightly so, in fear of being muzzle swept by some a sketchy gun owner that hasn't mastered the "big 4" safety rules.

Anyone is welcome to offer thoughts but I am curious about the LEO perspective. We often talk about having our officer's backs. And I am all in favor of that. I just am not convinced that I know exactly what that would mean and how I could communicate it to an officer succinctly in a high pressure situation.

[Jusme]

You are right that multiple scenarios are possible, since bad thing happen at all kinds of locations and all offer their own type of possible issues.

#1 You must communicate with an officer, if possible. Like you said a man suddenly appearing with any gun in an already tense situation could turn out badly. The first thing in an officers training is to "seek cover" but, the officer behind cover will be very busy communicating with dispatch, and/or other officers, gun fire drowns out voices, and tunnel vision prevents people, including officers from recognizing that someone may be trying to get their attention.

I don't know that there is a good way to assist in most situations, since you will not know when, or where other responding officers may arrive. My suggestion would be, if there is an officer trying to clear innocents out of the way, try to communicate with him/her, then they can relay the info to others if your assistance is needed. If you see an officer pinned down, and you can shoot back at BG without exposing yourself to them or officers who may mistake you for a co-conspirator, you may try that. Otherwise just stay in an area of safety, and only intervene if you can do so without risking your own life. A dead man with good intentions isn't much help. JMHO.

[LSUTiger]

My general question is for active/former LEO. Generally speaking, what can or should we say to communicate that we are on your side?...........

.............I just am not convinced that I know exactly what that would mean and how I could communicate it to an officer succinctly in a high pressure situation.

IANALEO but my SOP would be, unless my help or cooperation was asked for specifically, ....

1. Always show your hands are clear
2. Don't make any moves with out informing the officer first and getting a reply, "is it ok to reach for my ID", "ok, get your ID"
2. Comply
3. Extricate yourself from the situation, don't get in their way or interfere (obstruct).
5. Seek cover
6. Be a good witness, call for additional help, 911 and give information to help if situation warrants it.
7. Don't endanger your self
8. Render first aid as needed if threat has been removed from situation.

If you feel compelled or becomes necessary for you to get involved, you can always ask,"do you need any help?" if you are not sure.

Just stay cool.

Jules: Now Yolanda, we're not gonna do anything stupid, are we?
Yolanda: You don't hurt him.
Jules: Nobody's gonna hurt anybody. We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like? Come on Yolanda what's Fonzie like?
Yolanda: Cool?
Jules: What?
Yolanda: He's cool.
Jules: Correctamundo. And that's what we're gonna be. We're gonna be cool. Now Ringo, I'm gonna count to three, and when I count three, you let go of your gun, and sit your nice little bottom down. But when you do it, you do it cool. Ready? One... two... three.
[Ringo sits down opposite Jules]
Yolanda: All right, now you let him go.
Jules: Yolanda, I thought you said you were gonna be cool. Now when you yell at me, it makes me nervous. And when I get nervous, I get scared. And when dudes get scared, that's when dudes accidentally get shot.
Yolanda: You just know, you touch him, you die.
Jules: Well, that seems to be the situation. But I don't want that. And you don't want that. And Ringo here *definitely* doesn't want that.

[Scott B.]

Question came up in our LTC instructor's class.

Trooper responded with an example. Officer is just inside a Walmart entry way, attempting to subdue a suspect and it's not going smoothly. Throng of people standing around watching. Finally, a good citizen enters the store, see what's going on and asks the officer how he can help.

"Grab a leg!"

With the additional leverage, the officer was able to gain control and cuff the suspect.

Short version, "Ask how you can help" in those kinds of situations. They don't know you from adam/eve, so jumping right in might be unwelcome.

[goose]

All good thoughts above. (And a good quote) Hands in plain sight. Lots and lots of communication when possible. As with being pulled over, plenty of "What would you like me to do next?" I think that is a good way to reiterate to the officer that you recognize their authority and that you're looking to them for guidance and are hopefully less likely to go off half cocked.

[Javier730]

I love that scene.

[AJSully421]

Scenario 1: Stay the heck away and do not get involved. Those guys were spitting lead at an unprecedented rate for a bank robbery. Your chances of helping without hindering or becoming a casualty yourself are not very high.

If i did have to approach an officer with a long gun in a tense situation like that, I would hold it straight up with one hand with my other hand up and open while communicating that I am there to help. That would make me very visible to the bad guy too, and that is just not good. I would rather try and flank the guy myself if possible.

#2 is dead on. If you see the cop getting shot at, then start shooting back, but otherwise, keep holstered and let them tell you if he wants for you to bugger off or help out.

#3 might be OK to just stand off to the side with your hands clasped in front of you. Your body language will say "I have this officer's back" and might help to bring down the tension. Best bet here may be to stay away and observe. Chances are he has backup coming, and it is always easier to engage than to disengage. If someone gets physical, then you can always jump in.

If a dude and a cop are wrestling around on the ground, I cannot imagine an officer refusing you getting in there and grabbing hold of an arm or a leg.

[crazy2medic]

Early one morning I was headed to the Fire Sta. I noticed one of our female officers had 3 big guys (200+) pulled over and out of their vehicle, since I didn't see any backup for her, I turned around went back past where she had them on the side of the road, I drove down maybe 50yds and turned around and pulled up opposite of her stop and parked, now this was a 4 lane with a turn lane divided road, so I wasn't right on top of her stop but still close enough to help if she needed it. I sat there until the three got into their car and pulled away, I then continued on to the fire sta. She did a U turn and started following me, I knew she was running my plates and would recognize my name, I pulled into my station and we both got out at the same time, she asked me what were you doing, I said I was watching your back and where was your back up anyway, she said oh and then said all the other units were tied up at the north end of town, she then thanked me for having her back, then she asked me what were you planning on doing if they jumped me, told her that in that event I would have shot all three of them, her reply was okay and she left. In this I knew the officer, the officer knew me and we had a good relations between our fire dept and our police dept

[RicoTX]

I'm not a LEO, but I have thought about this. I live in a small town, so my chances of knowing the LEO is much higher than a bigger city. However, I would not engage anybody unless the BG was shooting at me or had the LEO trapped in such a way that it would be obvious what side I was on and I felt his or her life was in immediate danger.

If I was in a larger town where they have plenty of backup just minutes away....and they don't know me from Adam... I would be much more likely to avoid getting involved at all.

[Kenneth77]

I posted this a few weeks ago about my experience
Went to spring creek bbq in burleson last night and knowing they host the [Pre-paid legal service] meetings I didn't think twice about OC , so I was going to refill my tea and there was a black guy that said can I ask you a question and of coarse I say yes then he asked me since he saw me OC if I had any problems and I said no I haven't then he went on that he was an LEO in Milwaukee and didn't see any problems with it and wished that more people would OC. He also added that he didn't have a problem with a citizen having his back , so we exchanged thank you for what e were doing and I went on my way. I feel like this is the large majority of LEO's now and don't see them changing anytime soon.