CC in a bag

[Soap]

I've brought up this type of discussion before but I forgot to menton something. IF you're carring in a bag and you leave your bag with the gun near your table (at the pool) with someone who does not have a permit, can you or that person be charged? No one will ever know its there but it seems odd to leave it in your bag next to a family member who does not have a permit. What if I handed them the bag? I think this is a good argument for constitutional carry. I doubt it'll ever happen in Texas though.

[TexasTornado]

I've brought up this type of discussion before but I forgot to menton something. IF you're carring in a bag and you leave your bag with the gun near your table (at the pool) with someone who does not have a permit, can you or that person be charged? No one will ever know its there but it seems odd to leave it in your bag next to a family member who does not have a permit. What if I handed them the bag? I think this is a good argument for constitutional carry. I doubt it'll ever happen in Texas though.

This is one reason I don't recommend purse carry for women. How many times a day do you put your purse down? Do you take just a few steps away from it at the grocery store? Or leave it on the seat at dinner to run to the restroom? It's just asking for trouble IMO.

I also tend to error on the side of caution in this matter. I do carry my weapons in a bag while transporting/traveling and although it drives my boyfriend crazy because he wants to be a gentleman and carry my bag, I always decline because he's not licensed to carry.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I've brought up this type of discussion before but I forgot to menton something. IF you're carring in a bag and you leave your bag with the gun near your table (at the pool) with someone who does not have a permit, can you or that person be charged? No one will ever know its there but it seems odd to leave it in your bag next to a family member who does not have a permit. What if I handed them the bag? I think this is a good argument for constitutional carry. I doubt it'll ever happen in Texas though.

I always caution people not to leave a firearm where anyone you do not want to have possession of it can get to the gun. That said, the scenario you describe is not unlawful if:

• 1. You did not know and should not have known that the person close to the gun is was a convicted felon or otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms; and
  2. You have not violated TPC §46.13, the Texas "safe-storage law."

In your pool scenario, it is unclear if TPC §46.13 would apply. If it was a kids' pool party, then a DA may be more willing to accept charges, if a kid got your gun. If it was an adult party or no party at all, it is far less likely charges would be accepted, even if a kid did get the gun. If the pool is on your own property and no kids are known to be present, then charges are unlikely. As you can see, the "kid" element makes the ultimate result far from clear. Again, have your gun on your person if at all possible. If you are swimming and can't have the gun on you, then have it where you can keep an eye on it and keep anyone away if necessary. You could also have a locking device on the gun or small lock box to secure the gun, but that would also impede your access.

Chas.

Sec. 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In this section:

• (1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.
  
  (2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.
  
  (3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:

• (1) failed to secure the firearm; or
  
  (2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:

• (1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
  
  (2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
  
  (3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or
  
  (4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.

(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury to himself or another person.

(f) A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is committed if:

• (1) the actor is a member of the family, as defined by Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the firearm; and
  
  (2) the child in discharging the firearm caused the death of or serious injury to the child.

(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign that contains the following warning in block letters not less than one inch in height:

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

[mojo84]

Something being legal does not mean it is advisable.

[TexasTornado]

I've brought up this type of discussion before but I forgot to menton something. IF you're carring in a bag and you leave your bag with the gun near your table (at the pool) with someone who does not have a permit, can you or that person be charged? No one will ever know its there but it seems odd to leave it in your bag next to a family member who does not have a permit. What if I handed them the bag? I think this is a good argument for constitutional carry. I doubt it'll ever happen in Texas though.

I always caution people not to leave a firearm where anyone you do not want to have possession of it can get to the gun. That said, the scenario you describe is not unlawful if:

• 1. You did not know and should not have known that the person close to the gun is was a convicted felon or otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms; and
  2. You have not violated TPC §46.13, the Texas "safe-storage law."

In your pool scenario, it is unclear if TPC §46.13 would apply. If it was a kids' pool party, then a DA may be more willing to accept charges, if a kid got your gun. If it was an adult party or no party at all, it is far less likely charges would be accepted, even if a kid did get the gun. If the pool is on your own property and no kids are known to be present, then charges are unlikely. As you can see, the "kid" element makes the ultimate result far from clear. Again, have your gun on your person if at all possible. If you are swimming and can't have the gun on you, then have it where you can keep an eye on it and keep anyone away if necessary. You could also have a locking device on the gun or small lock box to secure the gun, but that would also impede your access.

Chas.

Sec. 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In this section:

• (1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.
  
  (2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.
  
  (3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:

• (1) failed to secure the firearm; or
  
  (2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:

• (1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
  
  (2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
  
  (3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or
  
  (4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.

(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury to himself or another person.

(f) A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is committed if:

• (1) the actor is a member of the family, as defined by Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the firearm; and
  
  (2) the child in discharging the firearm caused the death of or serious injury to the child.

(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign that contains the following warning in block letters not less than one inch in height:

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

Although you have not broken storage laws, isn't the person you handed your bag to (now holding a concealed weapons) violating carry laws if they don't have a permit?

[Charles L. Cotton]

I've brought up this type of discussion before but I forgot to menton something. IF you're carring in a bag and you leave your bag with the gun near your table (at the pool) with someone who does not have a permit, can you or that person be charged? No one will ever know its there but it seems odd to leave it in your bag next to a family member who does not have a permit. What if I handed them the bag? I think this is a good argument for constitutional carry. I doubt it'll ever happen in Texas though.

I always caution people not to leave a firearm where anyone you do not want to have possession of it can get to the gun. That said, the scenario you describe is not unlawful if:

• 1. You did not know and should not have known that the person close to the gun is was a convicted felon or otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms; and
  2. You have not violated TPC §46.13, the Texas "safe-storage law."

In your pool scenario, it is unclear if TPC §46.13 would apply. If it was a kids' pool party, then a DA may be more willing to accept charges, if a kid got your gun. If it was an adult party or no party at all, it is far less likely charges would be accepted, even if a kid did get the gun. If the pool is on your own property and no kids are known to be present, then charges are unlikely. As you can see, the "kid" element makes the ultimate result far from clear. Again, have your gun on your person if at all possible. If you are swimming and can't have the gun on you, then have it where you can keep an eye on it and keep anyone away if necessary. You could also have a locking device on the gun or small lock box to secure the gun, but that would also impede your access.

Chas.

Sec. 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In this section:

• (1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.
  
  (2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.
  
  (3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:

• (1) failed to secure the firearm; or
  
  (2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:

• (1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
  
  (2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
  
  (3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or
  
  (4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.

(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury to himself or another person.

(f) A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is committed if:

• (1) the actor is a member of the family, as defined by Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the firearm; and
  
  (2) the child in discharging the firearm caused the death of or serious injury to the child.

(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign that contains the following warning in block letters not less than one inch in height:

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

Although you have not broken storage laws, isn't the person you handed your bag to (now holding a concealed weapons) violating carry laws if they don't have a permit?

As I read the OP's scenario, it is my understanding that the bag with the handgun would be left on or near a table with an unlicensed person sitting at or near the table, but not physical possession of the handgun. That's the basis of my answer. If the purse/bag were handed to an unlicensed person then the unlicensed person would be in violation of TPC §46.02. I won't get into the "on or about one's person" discussion because there would be a multitude of determining factors.

Chas.

[Soccerdad1995]

I've brought up this type of discussion before but I forgot to menton something. IF you're carring in a bag and you leave your bag with the gun near your table (at the pool) with someone who does not have a permit, can you or that person be charged? No one will ever know its there but it seems odd to leave it in your bag next to a family member who does not have a permit. What if I handed them the bag? I think this is a good argument for constitutional carry. I doubt it'll ever happen in Texas though.

I always caution people not to leave a firearm where anyone you do not want to have possession of it can get to the gun. That said, the scenario you describe is not unlawful if:

• 1. You did not know and should not have known that the person close to the gun is was a convicted felon or otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms; and
  2. You have not violated TPC §46.13, the Texas "safe-storage law."

In your pool scenario, it is unclear if TPC §46.13 would apply. If it was a kids' pool party, then a DA may be more willing to accept charges, if a kid got your gun. If it was an adult party or no party at all, it is far less likely charges would be accepted, even if a kid did get the gun. If the pool is on your own property and no kids are known to be present, then charges are unlikely. As you can see, the "kid" element makes the ultimate result far from clear. Again, have your gun on your person if at all possible. If you are swimming and can't have the gun on you, then have it where you can keep an eye on it and keep anyone away if necessary. You could also have a locking device on the gun or small lock box to secure the gun, but that would also impede your access.

Chas.

Sec. 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In this section:

• (1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.
  
  (2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.
  
  (3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:

• (1) failed to secure the firearm; or
  
  (2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:

• (1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
  
  (2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
  
  (3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or
  
  (4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.

(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury to himself or another person.

(f) A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is committed if:

• (1) the actor is a member of the family, as defined by Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the firearm; and
  
  (2) the child in discharging the firearm caused the death of or serious injury to the child.

(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign that contains the following warning in block letters not less than one inch in height:

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

Although you have not broken storage laws, isn't the person you handed your bag to (now holding a concealed weapons) violating carry laws if they don't have a permit?

As I read the OP's scenario, it is my understanding that the bag with the handgun would be left on or near a table with an unlicensed person sitting at or near the table, but not physical possession of the handgun. That's the basis of my answer. If the purse/bag were handed to an unlicensed person then the unlicensed person would be in violation of TPC §46.02. I won't get into the "on or about one's person" discussion because there would be a multitude of determining factors.

Chas.

So the distinction is something like a woman leaving her purse at the table and telling her SO to "please keep an eye on this" while she visits the restroom versus a woman handing her purse to her SO while she tries on a dress at the department store?

[thetexan]

I've brought up this type of discussion before but I forgot to menton something. IF you're carring in a bag and you leave your bag with the gun near your table (at the pool) with someone who does not have a permit, can you or that person be charged? No one will ever know its there but it seems odd to leave it in your bag next to a family member who does not have a permit. What if I handed them the bag? I think this is a good argument for constitutional carry. I doubt it'll ever happen in Texas though.

This is like asking a friend to wait for you in his car in front of a bank while you go inside and rob it without telling the friend what's going on. You are making him an unwitting accomplice to a violation of law...in this case...your friend at the pool table is unwittingly taking unlicensed possession of a handgun on or about his person. If he is caught with the gun, he will be the one scrambling to stay out of jail for the unlicensed possession of a firearm. Ironically, I don't see what rule statute you would be violating unless you intentionally or knowingly gave your gun to another person which is federally state prohibited from possessing a gun (such as a felon or person under 17).

If you did this to a friend knowing he cannot be in possession of a gun on or about his person then shame on you for putting him that precarious and legally dangerous position. You would also be violating the doctrine of maintaining secure control of your firearm and limiting access to it by unauthorized persons.

If you can't maintain secure control of your own weapon under the auspices of your LTC in a given situation then don't carry. It's as simple as that.

tex

[Soap]

I've brought up this type of discussion before but I forgot to menton something. IF you're carring in a bag and you leave your bag with the gun near your table (at the pool) with someone who does not have a permit, can you or that person be charged? No one will ever know its there but it seems odd to leave it in your bag next to a family member who does not have a permit. What if I handed them the bag? I think this is a good argument for constitutional carry. I doubt it'll ever happen in Texas though.

This is like asking a friend to wait for you in his car in front of a bank while you go inside and rob it without telling the friend what's going on. You are making him an unwitting accomplice to a violation of law...in this case...your friend at the pool table is unwittingly taking unlicensed possession of a handgun on or about his person. If he is caught with the gun, he will be the one scrambling to stay out of jail for the unlicensed possession of a firearm. Ironically, I don't see what rule statute you would be violating unless you intentionally or knowingly gave your gun to another person which is federally state prohibited from possessing a gun (such as a felon or person under 17).

If you did this to a friend knowing he cannot be in possession of a gun on or about his person then shame on you for putting him that precarious and legally dangerous position. You would also be violating the doctrine of maintaining secure control of your firearm and limiting access to it by unauthorized persons.

If you can't maintain secure control of your own weapon under the auspices of your LTC in a given situation then don't carry. It's as simple as that.

tex

My reason for wanting constitutional carry. My wife shouldn't need permission from the government to hold our property. Robbing a bank isn't really a right but by Texas law it was a good comparison. Now, it's our jobs to change this.