FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

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Chaparral
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#136

Post by Chaparral » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:15 pm

TreyHouston wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:31 pm
bblhd672 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:06 pm
TreyHouston wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:47 pm
These must be a lot of people here that have never been blindly attacked. During that shock, can you make a split decision? You will only possibly pay with your life if you are wrong.

Just sayin, put yourself in his shoes and remember...
I can’t put myself in his shoes because I’m not a jerk who thinks he has the right to confront people about parking violations.

Now, if I’m minding my own business and an unprovoked attack like that occurs then the attacker is likely to face deadly force. I would hope that I have the opportunity to not pull the trigger should my attacker back away when I draw my self defense handgun.
What happened to the 1st amendment?
Just because it is legal to initiate a verbal confrontation with a stranger, doesn’t mean it is a smart thing to do.

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mojo84
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#137

Post by mojo84 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:17 pm

TreyHouston wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:31 pm
bblhd672 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:06 pm
TreyHouston wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:47 pm
These must be a lot of people here that have never been blindly attacked. During that shock, can you make a split decision? You will only possibly pay with your life if you are wrong.

Just sayin, put yourself in his shoes and remember...
I can’t put myself in his shoes because I’m not a jerk who thinks he has the right to confront people about parking violations.

Now, if I’m minding my own business and an unprovoked attack like that occurs then the attacker is likely to face deadly force. I would hope that I have the opportunity to not pull the trigger should my attacker back away when I draw my self defense handgun.
What happened to the 1st amendment?
The government wasn't involved until the guy shot an unarmed guy. This is not a 1st amendment issue.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#138

Post by K.Mooneyham » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:07 pm

DISCLAIMER: I DON'T THINK THE SHOOTER IS THE BEST GUY ON EARTH! (some acted as if I thought that elsewhere on the 'Net). :confused5 :crazy:

And, I wouldn't have done what the shooter did in confronting the people parking illegally. Not my business, I leave that sort of enforcement up to the police who get paid to do that. However, after having a discussion on another site regarding this story, a lot of folks seem to not understand escalation/deescalation, but they do seem to think it's okay to lay hands on due to verbal provocation alone. Who knows, maybe in Florida that's okay? I just know it's not here in Texas, per PC 9.31. That said, I still do my best not talk trash to folks.

If the shooter had a history of doing that sort of thing, and threatened them in the process, why did no one ever call the police on him? Or did they? If they did, what was the result of those calls?

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mojo84
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#139

Post by mojo84 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:31 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:07 pm
DISCLAIMER: I DON'T THINK THE SHOOTER IS THE BEST GUY ON EARTH! (some acted as if I thought that elsewhere on the 'Net). :confused5 :crazy:

And, I wouldn't have done what the shooter did in confronting the people parking illegally. Not my business, I leave that sort of enforcement up to the police who get paid to do that. However, after having a discussion on another site regarding this story, a lot of folks seem to not understand escalation/deescalation, but they do seem to think it's okay to lay hands on due to verbal provocation alone. Who knows, maybe in Florida that's okay? I just know it's not here in Texas, per PC 9.31. That said, I still do my best not talk trash to folks.

If the shooter had a history of doing that sort of thing, and threatened them in the process, why did no one ever call the police on him? Or did they? If they did, what was the result of those calls?
I have not seen anyone say it was ok to push the guy. My contention is that it is not acceptable or legal to shoot someone over being pushed if the attack was not continuing. Shooting someone out of retaliation is not acceptable.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#140

Post by rp_photo » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:13 pm

I agree with the charges. When carrying, it's even more important to not look for trouble, which hassling strangers over handicapped parking certainly is.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#141

Post by rp_photo » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:16 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:07 pm
And, I wouldn't have done what the shooter did in confronting the people parking illegally. Not my business, I leave that sort of enforcement up to the police who get paid to do that.
People tend to get involved when they shouldn't and vice-versa.
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S&W M&P 40, Remington 870 Express 12 ga 18"


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#142

Post by TreyHouston » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:31 pm

I’m not saying I agree with what he did or disagree. I am glad many here KNOW he was in a “verbal altercation” with the guys wife! There are many people who use their hands to talk. I dont know if the wife text her husband or not. I sure don’t know that either! I have seen people get beat up simply because some dude thought he was talking to his wife/gf. In reality, they had not said a word to each other.
I do however know what it is like to get blindsided like that, mostly by friends messing around, and it is very disorienting! (Military) You get the whole vision tunnel dream like state going on. The other guy was pretty big as well!
Witnesses - I don’t know if the people that are talking are telling the truth or not. I have seen people jump on the band wagon without knowing the facts! The only way to get most of the real story is to hear it in the court where both sides can be heard.
The other day in my company parking garage I had some guy come up to me after I parked and exited my truck, he told me I was over the line. I was in a hurry, I thanked him and reparked my truck. No biggie. If I showed you the video without audio, it could have looked like he was yelling at me...

Do I agree what happened? I DON’T KNOW! I do know that is very unfortunate a man died. I do also agree that it could have happened the other way around as well do to a head injury or a continued attack. 12 FT is AWFULLY close even if a handgun is already pulled.

Just sayn’!!
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:


K.Mooneyham
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#143

Post by K.Mooneyham » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:58 pm

mojo84 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:31 pm
K.Mooneyham wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:07 pm
DISCLAIMER: I DON'T THINK THE SHOOTER IS THE BEST GUY ON EARTH! (some acted as if I thought that elsewhere on the 'Net). :confused5 :crazy:

And, I wouldn't have done what the shooter did in confronting the people parking illegally. Not my business, I leave that sort of enforcement up to the police who get paid to do that. However, after having a discussion on another site regarding this story, a lot of folks seem to not understand escalation/deescalation, but they do seem to think it's okay to lay hands on due to verbal provocation alone. Who knows, maybe in Florida that's okay? I just know it's not here in Texas, per PC 9.31. That said, I still do my best not talk trash to folks.

If the shooter had a history of doing that sort of thing, and threatened them in the process, why did no one ever call the police on him? Or did they? If they did, what was the result of those calls?
I have not seen anyone say it was ok to push the guy. My contention is that it is not acceptable or legal to shoot someone over being pushed if the attack was not continuing. Shooting someone out of retaliation is not acceptable.
Mojo84, my comment wasn't directed at you or anyone else here on the Forum. My conversation on the subject happened elsewhere. I put that in the top statement, but I guess I could have done more to make it clear. The folks on here seem to have a much better grasp on the subject, even if disagreeing with each other, than some others out across the Internet. I guess I shouldn't have interjected that into the topic already being discussed as it caused some confusion. My apologies.


Zen
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#144

Post by Zen » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:56 am

I carry. I do so for self-protection of myself and my loved ones. It is a responsibility as well as a right. As a carrying individual, I do not put myself in situations that may raise the odds of having to pull my pistol. It’s not there to bolster me to confront people.

This gentleman failed in that responsibility. Whether he shot in good faith or not believing his life was in danger, he created that situation by acting an ass and irresponsibly. A confrontation with someone who is armed, citizen or law enforcement, automatically escalated the danger of the confrontation.


montgomery
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#145

Post by montgomery » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:14 am

bigtek wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:00 pm
It's fake news to attack the Florida stand your ground law based on this. The victim was attacked and knocked to the ground. He wasn't standing when he shot his attacker, and it's not likely a person knocked to the ground can crawl fast enough to escape a standing attacker.
Agreed. Mass media attempt to politicize and demonize SYG in a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with SYG


Rob72
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#146

Post by Rob72 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:21 am

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:07 pm

If the shooter had a history of doing that sort of thing, and threatened them in the process, why did no one ever call the police on him? Or did they? If they did, what was the result of those calls?
To answer the question:
A black man who drives a septic truck told Moffett he parked in the same handicapped-accessible spot three months before McGlockton's shooting, the documents show. The man said Drejka began yelling at him and said he would shoot him. The driver said he left, but as he pulled away Drejka shouted racial slurs. The man's boss told Moffett that Drejka later called, telling him "that he was lucky he didn't blow his employee's head off."

In separate 2012 cases, drivers reported that Drejka waved a gun at them during road rage confrontations. In both cases, officers stopped Drejka and found a gun in his car, but he denied showing it to the other drivers.
The first bolded quote is a reasonable substantiation of the threatened employee's story. Even if we were to discount it, saying that they were now jumping on the bandwagon, or that they(supervisor and employee) were conspiring for the employee's benefit, the documentation of the 2012 incidents shows Drejka to be someone frequently stated to be involved in, "gun calls." In the absence of video, these are he-said-she-said calls, and both parties get a talking to, as nothing more can be done.

Drejka's mental state would seem to be heavily influenced by performance-bias: "I've done this before and never gotten in trouble. I'm too smart/too good/know better." He does not appear to have objectively reviewed his behaviors and actions, but obtained a sense of justification from his interactions with LE, and superiority from his interactions with those he felt were heinous obtruders of the law. Such a perspective generally precedes a pattern of escalation (i.e., Drejka sought out higher risk encounters and/or was willing to dramatically escalate encounters).

Even in his failure, Drejka was "protected" by the social awareness of the people he confronted. As he reaches back, they begin to retreat. I've seen something similar, where a Mouth-man started an altercation with a sizeable biker, got knocked on his keister, and began a draw. He suffered a compressed skull fracture and shattered jaw when the biker took 1 big step forward, and punted his head like a football. Biker was charged with assault, nothing more, as Mouth escalated at every opportunity. Drejka thought he was a big fish. Bigger ones are out there.

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tomneal
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#147

Post by tomneal » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:30 am

A couple of thoughts.

I am not the 'parking police' and don't want to be.

After being shoved to the ground, there were at least 3 people 'converging' on the shooter. The shover, the wife, and a 'random' guy coming out of the store and walking toward the shooter.

The shooter didn't have much time to make his decision to pull the trigger.

Everyone on the video seems to have made mistakes.

The one thing the shooter is doing correctly is 'shutting up'. If only George Zimmerman, Joe Horn, and many others had shut up after the shooting, their legal fees would have been lower.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#148

Post by der Teufel » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:59 am

tomneal wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:30 am
… Everyone on the video seems to have made mistakes.
That's certainly a major truth!

Without audio it's difficult to really know for certain what happened.
Was the victim saying "Now I'm gonna kick your butt!" ?? Or was he saying "Leave my girl friend alone!" ?? Or was he saying nothing?

What, if anything, did the shooter say?

There's little, basically none, justification for coming up and knocking someone to the ground. It's terrible that a parking space argument ended with a death.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#149

Post by BBYC » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:49 pm

Chaparral wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:15 pm
Just because it is legal to initiate a verbal confrontation with a stranger, doesn’t mean it is a smart thing to do.
:iagree:

And just because it is legal for a young woman to wear provocative clothing in public, doesn’t mean it is a smart thing to do.
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Courage to change the things I can
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#150

Post by dlh » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:54 pm

Not familiar with Florida law. Isn't there a grand jury in any of this? And, of course, I understand a prosecutor can "indict a ham sandwich."
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