What would YOU do?

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flintknapper
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Re: What would YOU do?

#31

Post by flintknapper » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:27 pm

narcissist wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:50 pm
Oldgringo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:12 pm
Hypothetical question:

You, your SO and maybe your spawn, are in your neighborhood Walmart on a Saturday afternoon looking for bird feed, kitty litter, and some snackers, mixers, etc. Suddenly, you hear what you perceive to be gunshots! You are legally carrying your fully loaded, cocked and locked .45 cal louden boomer.

What do you do?
Even though they changed their rules on open carry I would still try to find the attacker, while telling my family to leave to the vehicle and leave to saftey. In no way shape or form am I trying to be a :Hero" just trying to do what's right in my eyes. Mainly if it's a mass idiot shooter, END the threat!!!
For those who responded they would run toward the gunfire or otherwise seek out an Active Shooter, just be aware that these days there is VERY heightened pressure for officers to 'respond' as quickly as is possible (engage shooter).

ANYONE with a drawn weapon is going to be putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, depending on the LEO's level of training and ability to control their nerves.

A responding officer may NOT have any information about the active shooter(s).

May not have a description, may not know the number of shooters or the weapon involved. Good way to get yourself shot if you are perceived to be a threat in any way, shape or form.

But I leave it up to you and circumstance. Just think it over...
Last edited by flintknapper on Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: What would YOU do?

#32

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:28 pm

flintknapper wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:27 pm
narcissist wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:50 pm
Oldgringo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:12 pm
Hypothetical question:

You, your SO and maybe your spawn, are in your neighborhood Walmart on a Saturday afternoon looking for bird feed, kitty litter, and some snackers, mixers, etc. Suddenly, you hear what you perceive to be gunshots! You are legally carrying your fully loaded, cocked and locked .45 cal louden boomer.

What do you do?
Even though they changed their rules on open carry I would still try to find the attacker, while telling my family to leave to the vehicle and leave to saftey. In no way shape or form am I trying to be a :Hero" just trying to do what's right in my eyes. Mainly if it's a mass idiot shooter, END the threat!!!
For those who responded they would run toward the gunfire or otherwise seek out an Active Shooter, just be aware that these days there is VERY heightened pressure for officers to 'respond' as quickly as is possible.

ANYONE with a drawn weapon is going to be putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, depending on the LEO's level training and ability to control their nerves.

A responding officer may NOT have any information about the active shooter(s).

May not have a description, may not know the number of shooters or the weapon involved. Good way to get yourself shot.

But I leave it up to you and circumstance. Just think it over...
:iagree:

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Oldgringo
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Re: What would YOU do?

#33

Post by Oldgringo » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:51 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:28 pm
flintknapper wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:27 pm
narcissist wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:50 pm
Oldgringo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:12 pm
Hypothetical question:

You, your SO and maybe your spawn, are in your neighborhood Walmart on a Saturday afternoon looking for bird feed, kitty litter, and some snackers, mixers, etc. Suddenly, you hear what you perceive to be gunshots! You are legally carrying your fully loaded, cocked and locked .45 cal louden boomer.

What do you do?
Even though they changed their rules on open carry I would still try to find the attacker, while telling my family to leave to the vehicle and leave to saftey. In no way shape or form am I trying to be a :Hero" just trying to do what's right in my eyes. Mainly if it's a mass idiot shooter, END the threat!!!
For those who responded they would run toward the gunfire or otherwise seek out an Active Shooter, just be aware that these days there is VERY heightened pressure for officers to 'respond' as quickly as is possible.

ANYONE with a drawn weapon is going to be putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, depending on the LEO's level training and ability to control their nerves.

A responding officer may NOT have any information about the active shooter(s).

May not have a description, may not know the number of shooters or the weapon involved. Good way to get yourself shot.

But I leave it up to you and circumstance. Just think it over...
:iagree:
There you have it, folks. Is this the most probable correct answe/SR's to the hypothetical question? The Shadow Knows.......dum de dum dum....duuum

Good night and good luck!


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Re: What would YOU do?

#34

Post by hondo44 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:05 pm

flintknapper wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:27 pm
narcissist wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:50 pm
Oldgringo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:12 pm
Hypothetical question:

You, your SO and maybe your spawn, are in your neighborhood Walmart on a Saturday afternoon looking for bird feed, kitty litter, and some snackers, mixers, etc. Suddenly, you hear what you perceive to be gunshots! You are legally carrying your fully loaded, cocked and locked .45 cal louden boomer.

What do you do?
Even though they changed their rules on open carry I would still try to find the attacker, while telling my family to leave to the vehicle and leave to saftey. In no way shape or form am I trying to be a :Hero" just trying to do what's right in my eyes. Mainly if it's a mass idiot shooter, END the threat!!!
For those who responded they would run toward the gunfire or otherwise seek out an Active Shooter, just be aware that these days there is VERY heightened pressure for officers to 'respond' as quickly as is possible (engage shooter).

ANYONE with a drawn weapon is going to be putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, depending on the LEO's level of training and ability to control their nerves.

A responding officer may NOT have any information about the active shooter(s).

May not have a description, may not know the number of shooters or the weapon involved. Good way to get yourself shot if you are perceived to be a threat in any way, shape or form.

But I leave it up to you and circumstance. Just think it over...
except for the fact that a cop has NEVER shot a good guy with a gun in a mass shooting situation. It just doesn't happen.
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oljames3
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Re: What would YOU do?

#35

Post by oljames3 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:05 am

bulletslap wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:15 pm
AndyC wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:58 am
LTUME1978 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:02 am
If one takes a Response to Active Shooter Class (I have been in two by different instructors) you will have to do long distance shooting. One class (KR Training) had us shooting at an 18 X 24 inch steel plate. We started at 25 yards and worked our way back to 70 yards and got hits all the way.
Agreed. This is what it looks like, by the way:

Image
If I recall correctly you were the last man standing in that exercise, and was I next to last out ? I truly can't remember.
I made it to 50 yards, then we had to end the exercise because we ran out of time.
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2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
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flintknapper
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Re: What would YOU do?

#36

Post by flintknapper » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:36 am

hondo44 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:05 pm
flintknapper wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:27 pm
narcissist wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:50 pm
Oldgringo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:12 pm
Hypothetical question:

You, your SO and maybe your spawn, are in your neighborhood Walmart on a Saturday afternoon looking for bird feed, kitty litter, and some snackers, mixers, etc. Suddenly, you hear what you perceive to be gunshots! You are legally carrying your fully loaded, cocked and locked .45 cal louden boomer.

What do you do?
Even though they changed their rules on open carry I would still try to find the attacker, while telling my family to leave to the vehicle and leave to saftey. In no way shape or form am I trying to be a :Hero" just trying to do what's right in my eyes. Mainly if it's a mass idiot shooter, END the threat!!!
For those who responded they would run toward the gunfire or otherwise seek out an Active Shooter, just be aware that these days there is VERY heightened pressure for officers to 'respond' as quickly as is possible (engage shooter).

ANYONE with a drawn weapon is going to be putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, depending on the LEO's level of training and ability to control their nerves.

A responding officer may NOT have any information about the active shooter(s).

May not have a description, may not know the number of shooters or the weapon involved. Good way to get yourself shot if you are perceived to be a threat in any way, shape or form.

But I leave it up to you and circumstance. Just think it over...
except for the fact that a cop has NEVER shot a good guy with a gun in a mass shooting situation. It just doesn't happen.
You mean it hasn't happened yet.

The reason for this of course is that Mass Shootings/Active Shooter incidents themselves are fairly rare and tend to go down quickly. LEO are simply NOT there yet when/if an armed citizen has intervened. There is only ONE such example I can even think of (citizen firing upon Active Shooter).

LEO unfortunately DO shoot a good number of people with cell phones in their hands, nothing in their hands or folks that make what is perceived to be a furtive 'move'. This can and does happen in other stressful situations. I would not envy LEO having to quickly determine WHO the bad guy is...when/if more than one person is wielding a weapon (whether shooting it at the time or not) in the course of an active shooting.

Not 'Cop Bashing' here, they have no greater supporter. Just saying this type of thing (citizen engaging shooter as the cops roll up) is ripe for a tragedy.
Spartans ask not how many, but where!

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AndyC
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Re: What would YOU do?

#37

Post by AndyC » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:55 am

I work in an environment where many of the staff are armed and our local PD are well-aware of that fact - as are we of the pressure the police would be under during an active-shooter event.
bulletslap wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:15 pm
AndyC wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:58 am
LTUME1978 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:02 am
If one takes a Response to Active Shooter Class (I have been in two by different instructors) you will have to do long distance shooting. One class (KR Training) had us shooting at an 18 X 24 inch steel plate. We started at 25 yards and worked our way back to 70 yards and got hits all the way.
Agreed. This is what it looks like, by the way:

Image
If I recall correctly you were the last man standing in that exercise, and was I next to last out ? I truly can't remember.
I don't think we did last-man-standing - everyone was getting hits and not many had to try a second time. I specifically remember my rival (fully decked-out security dude) dropping a shot on that stage at around 60 yards and having to try again (and his expression when I hit it ;-) ).

It was interesting that - while everyone was ultimately able to hit a tiny target at distance - up-close many people couldn't perform well at speed.
Remember Kitty Genovese

Image

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jerry_r60
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Re: What would YOU do?

#38

Post by jerry_r60 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:53 am

hondo44 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:05 pm
flintknapper wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:27 pm
narcissist wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:50 pm
Oldgringo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:12 pm
Hypothetical question:

You, your SO and maybe your spawn, are in your neighborhood Walmart on a Saturday afternoon looking for bird feed, kitty litter, and some snackers, mixers, etc. Suddenly, you hear what you perceive to be gunshots! You are legally carrying your fully loaded, cocked and locked .45 cal louden boomer.

What do you do?
Even though they changed their rules on open carry I would still try to find the attacker, while telling my family to leave to the vehicle and leave to saftey. In no way shape or form am I trying to be a :Hero" just trying to do what's right in my eyes. Mainly if it's a mass idiot shooter, END the threat!!!
For those who responded they would run toward the gunfire or otherwise seek out an Active Shooter, just be aware that these days there is VERY heightened pressure for officers to 'respond' as quickly as is possible (engage shooter).

ANYONE with a drawn weapon is going to be putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, depending on the LEO's level of training and ability to control their nerves.

A responding officer may NOT have any information about the active shooter(s).

May not have a description, may not know the number of shooters or the weapon involved. Good way to get yourself shot if you are perceived to be a threat in any way, shape or form.

But I leave it up to you and circumstance. Just think it over...
except for the fact that a cop has NEVER shot a good guy with a gun in a mass shooting situation. It just doesn't happen.
It has happened more than once:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46350307

https://fox5sandiego.com/2018/11/12/pol ... -shooting/


Caliber
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Re: What would YOU do?

#39

Post by Caliber » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:18 am

If you went to the NRA Expo, there was a pretty good class called "Stay Safe, Security Secrets For Today's Dangerous World" (which is also the name of the instructor's book...which I'm currently reading). The instructor is an ex-FBI agent that's been in multiple gun fights around the world.

He used the OP's same scenario to describe what you should do. Here it is in a nutshell: Since "your body won't go where your mind hasn't been", you should already know where all the exits are in the Walmart and you should have already pictured in your mind how you would exit the store. When you hear the pop-pop-pop, don't try to rationalize you intuition that perhaps what you heard was not gunfire. Trust your intuition. Don't run toward the front of the store because that's where everyone else is going to run. Run to the back exit or whatever. Obviously, you need to be quiet and careful as you exit. What' really important is that you need to MOVE and keep moving. Even if you happen upon the gunman, keep moving. According to the FBI, you have a 96% chance of not being shot if you are moving. (Note: Of the 4% that did get shot, only 1% actually were killed.)

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narcissist
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Re: What would YOU do?

#40

Post by narcissist » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:49 am

flintknapper wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:27 pm
narcissist wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:50 pm
Oldgringo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:12 pm
Hypothetical question:

You, your SO and maybe your spawn, are in your neighborhood Walmart on a Saturday afternoon looking for bird feed, kitty litter, and some snackers, mixers, etc. Suddenly, you hear what you perceive to be gunshots! You are legally carrying your fully loaded, cocked and locked .45 cal louden boomer.

What do you do?
Even though they changed their rules on open carry I would still try to find the attacker, while telling my family to leave to the vehicle and leave to saftey. In no way shape or form am I trying to be a :Hero" just trying to do what's right in my eyes. Mainly if it's a mass idiot shooter, END the threat!!!
For those who responded they would run toward the gunfire or otherwise seek out an Active Shooter, just be aware that these days there is VERY heightened pressure for officers to 'respond' as quickly as is possible (engage shooter).

ANYONE with a drawn weapon is going to be putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, depending on the LEO's level of training and ability to control their nerves.

A responding officer may NOT have any information about the active shooter(s).

May not have a description, may not know the number of shooters or the weapon involved. Good way to get yourself shot if you are perceived to be a threat in any way, shape or form.

But I leave it up to you and circumstance. Just think it over...
Thanks for the info, more then likely id call 911 and just inform them of my name what im wearing and what my plan is. Ill take my chances when it comes to saving lives, not afraid of death myself.
One of my biggest mistakes in life...Is Believing people will show me the same love I've shown them. :reddevil

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03Lightningrocks
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Re: What would YOU do?

#41

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:19 pm

narcissist wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:49 am

Thanks for the info, more then likely id call 911 and just inform them of my name what im wearing and what my plan is. Ill take my chances when it comes to saving lives, not afraid of death myself.
I would bet that the 911 operator will tell you to stand down. As for them relaying a description of one good guy with a gun when there are dozens of people running around the place and an unknown number of shooters, I would bet that just won't happen. While I appreciate what you are saying about wanting to help, I think it is real important to know going in that if a cop sees you in the store with a gun out, he is highly likely to shoot first and ask questions later. I also don't know the logistics of calling 911 and discussing your outfit while you are engaging an armed man with a loaded rifle. It could be tricky.


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Re: What would YOU do?

#42

Post by Grayling813 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:03 pm

Also at the NRA Personal Protection Expo, Paul Howe said we should stop using the left's terminology of "active shooter," instead using "active mass killer".
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oljames3
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Re: What would YOU do?

#43

Post by oljames3 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:16 pm

Grayling813 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:03 pm
Also at the NRA Personal Protection Expo, Paul Howe said we should stop using the left's terminology of "active shooter," instead using "active mass killer".
:iagree: with Howe. I am an active shooter. I am not an active killer.
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
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PriestTheRunner
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Re: What would YOU do?

#44

Post by PriestTheRunner » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:45 pm

hondo44 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:05 pm
except for the fact that a cop has NEVER shot a good guy with a gun in a mass shooting situation. It just doesn't happen.
This is blatantly false...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/us/a ... oting.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/e ... ncna943006 (non paywall version)

You have WAY too much trust in the (widely varied) levels of training for our LEOs.

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flintknapper
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Re: What would YOU do?

#45

Post by flintknapper » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:32 am

Grayling813 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:03 pm
Also at the NRA Personal Protection Expo, Paul Howe said we should stop using the left's terminology of "active shooter," instead using "active mass killer".
Fortunately his facility is right here in my neighborhood and the PD here (Swat Team) get a lot of their training there.
Spartans ask not how many, but where!

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