Am I missing something regarding cost savings?

[CWOOD]

I shoot a Glock 30,,,45ACP. My daughters both shoot 9mm. With the current trend int the price of ammo I have been exploring the savings one might realize by loading my own ammo vs. buying factory loaded ammo. I only shoot 200-400 rounds per month and with my Glock I only want to shoot jacketed ammo at this time. I know that I could change barrels and shoot lead bullets, but for the sake of discussion at this time let's stay with jacketed ammo.

I looked on Cabela's website to get the following info because it was all together and easy. Like everything else at Cabela's one can probably find better deals elsewhere. If you can show me better prices and locations I would be pleased for you to do so. Here is what I found using 1000 rounds.

9mm brass $133 bullets $100 primers $30 which works out to 26 cents/round
45ACP brass$170 bullets $180 primers $30 which works out to 38 cents/round

That works out to 9mm for $26/100 and 45ACP for $38/100. These are not great prices. This doesn't include powder as I currently have no clue about type, amount, or cost. It also does not include equipment or time.

I am not looking to start another hobby. I am not wanting to load for precision, or ultimate accuracy or any thing of the sort. I am looking for a cheaper source of range fodder for IDPA matches primarily. I know that you can save on brass by saving and reusing it to some degree but I would suspect that you couldn't get back more than half of it averaged over time. So, even if I reduced the brass expense by half, that would still be about 9mm for $20/100 and 45ACP for $30/100.

I can currently get Wolf ammo for $230/1000 delivered/no tax. How can I beat that by rollin' my own? Please don't tell me about how bad Wolf is. I have used it and it works. That is all I need in this case. I use premium rounds for carry and self defense and I clean my weapons after each firing anyway.

I eagerly await being shown the error of my logic.
Thanks Folks.

[HighVelocity]

The Brass cost is what makes your cost per round calculation look so bad. Both 45acp and 9mm brass can be reloaded, many times over. Let's say you can reload a 45acp case 20 times (assuming you always recover it after firing). How does that affect your cost per round calculation?

Cabelas is VERY expensive. Try http://www.midwayusa.com and http://www.natchezss.com

[Charles L. Cotton]

I agree with Highvelocity. I don't even consider brass as part of the cost of reloading. .45 ACP brass lasts forever! I have at least 25,000 rds of .45 ACP brass to be loaded, perhaps much more. I have at least 10,000 rds loaded, so I doubt I'll live long enough to need to buy brass. Until the recent price surge, it was always cheaper to buy loaded .45 ACP, then keep the brass for reloading. From what I've heard, that is no longer the case, even for .45 ACP. (I know it's not the case with 38 Super.)

If you are just getting into reloading, then you're going to have to buy brass. Try these prices:

Starline .45 ACP @ $137.80/1,000 http://starlinebrass.com/
Montana Gold Bullet 230 gr. FMJ @ $131.50/1,000 and as low as $127.50/1,000 if you buy 16,000 rds. https://secure3.mooseweb.com/montanagol ... celist.tpl (This is the delivered price, unless they have changes their policy.
Primers - ??? I don't know what they're running now, but the last time I bought some, they were $15/1,000.

The 9mm you're loading have comparable savings.

As lead prices come down, bullets will also be much cheaper. The last large order of 230 Gr. FMJ's I got were $66/1,000 delivered, but those days are probably gone for a long time. Nevertheless, we should see prices well below $100/1,000 in the not-to-distant future.

Chas.

[Target1911]

Not counting the press and related gear needed......

I dont buy brass.....I pick it from ranges.....

Without the cost of brass, I can load 45acp for about $4.67 per 50ct box. That comes out to 93.36 per 1000.
That is 1/2 of the cost of the cheapest factory ammo.

Use this to calculate your cost
http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

[CWOOD]

I thank everyone for the comments here and on Venus Pax's thread about being frugal. It has all been very informative and helpful.

With my Glock 30 I need FMJ bullets. I may decide to buy another barrel at some point but not now.

I decided to buy 1000 Blazer aluminum .45 FMJ for $237 delivered or 23.7 cents/round. That is cheaper than I could reload at this time. I have shot a lot of this before and it is good IDPA ammo.

The best deal I could find for reloading components was new brass at Starline for $138; bullets from Precision Delta for $120 delivered and primers about $25. That is about 29 cents/round. That doesn't include powder and it certainly does not include start up equipment to do the work. Even if I eventually reused about 50% of the brass, that would put it at about 22 cents/round. Better but not convincing.

In the mean time, I'll shoot the Blazer and start getting in the habit of picking up brass at the matches where I can without stepping on toes of those who are currently reloading. I also have about 1000 rounds of Blazer Brass which I can certainly recover some of when I shoot them (after the aluminum). I have also found that some internet sites sell once fired brass at about half price. That will be an option. I can start looking for good deals to get ready for the time when it makes sense for me.

As far as reloading eqpt. I have been looking at the Lee Pro 1000 which sells for about $140 with dies. Ii is primarily for handgun loading but also doew .223...a plus. I then noticed the Lee Loadmaster which sells for around $200 with dies. This appears to be a much stouter design for not a lot more money. The both permit single stage operation for learning and for specialty loading. This looks like a plus for a newbie. Looks like most of the other starter stuff can be added for around $125+/-. Obviously Dillon seems to be very well respected. I like the Square Deal B, but it would be nice if it could do .223. Also the dies are expensive and not transferable to another machine.

I would like to hear opinions on my reasoning regarding equipment selection.

Also, if anyone in the Austin would care to show me generally how to do this, it would be appreciated. I am not really looking for lessons (yet) but would like to watch the process.

As I mentioned, I am not looking for a new hobby. I have plenty. I just want to enjoy my shooting hobby a bit mre frugally.

Thanks again for all the good info.

Regards

[dukalmighty]

I shoot a lot and use lead bullets i make from scrap wheel weights etc.,i have some money invested but when i can load a 100 rounds of 45acp for about $6.00 and wwb is $32 plus a box of 100 savings add up quick, as do blisters on the trigger finger.in fact i'm about ready to drop about a $1000 bucks on a dillon 650 setup,to enhance my reloading hobby.I also reload for every calibre of rifle and pistol I own,and shotshell reloaders are still in boxes from last move,if need arises i will set them up and my machine to make lead shot from scrap lead

[CWOOD]

At some point, I may likely get a drop in rifled barrel so I can shoot lead in my Glock 30, but not now. I know that will keep my costs elevated in the mean time but that is the way it is for now. Also, at this time I am only shooting 400-500 rounds per month.

Anybody here everused the Lee Loadmaster? Opinions?

[Target1911]

You may want to get a cheap single stage and crimp die for that blazer. That stuff is great to shoot but it is horrible about bullet set back.....where the bullet is pushed deeper in the casing. That could lead to higher chamber pressures.

Just get you the single stage set up and crimp the blazer and you wont have any problems.

[AggieMM]

Carl, as you know, last year I "bit the bullet" and bought a used Dillon 550B press, and have been reloading since the summer. But before I did that, I did a Return on Investment (ROI) spreadsheet to see if I could save money reloading 9mm. Well, the truth of the matter is that reloading supplies are going up along with ammo prices, so everything is increasing. But the bottom line was that I was only going to save $0.04 per round to reload my own. Here is the worksheet I did last summer:

June 2007 Reloading Cost Analysis

I just updated my spreadsheet today, after making a few phone calls to get updated 9mm pricing from Academy and Wally-world:

February 2008 Reloading Cost Analysis

As you can see, now I'm only saving $0.03 per round.

If you ignore the initial capital to buy the supplies, you can save money in the long run. HOWEVER, the ROI is too steep to make it worth the investment. So, why did I reload?

• Wanted a new hobby to keep me out of trouble.
• Wanted to try to be more competitive in IDPA/USPSA
• Enjoy hearing Bubba/Alan complain of my "soft" loads (see bottom)
• And I get to tell my wife I'm saving money

So, IMHO, don't start reloading 9mm to "save" money, you have to fire too many rounds to make up the difference in the initial investment. Only make the decision to start reloading 9mm if you want a new hobby.

Hope that helps.

Ryan

BTW - For the record, here is my load info for my Glock 34:

• 147gr Precision Delta 9mm FMJ
  3.0g TiteGroup Powder
  Winchester primers
  Mixed Brass (mostly Fed and Win)
  12lb Wolff recoil spring:
  
  Last Load: Average fps = 900.3 (2sigma min = 876.7)
  IDPA floor for SSP 147gr = 851 fps.

[WildBill]

AggieMM - Your calculations do not take into account the main cost savings of reloading - you get to use the brass over and over again. Try recalculating using $0.0014 each for brass. If you reuse the brass 25 times the cost is actually $0.036/25 = $0.0014 per round. So you are actually saving $0.068/round. It's not the same as winning the lottery, but it does bring the cost down much more than you think. If you reuse the brass 100 times or get some at the range for free, the cost is even less.

[stroo]

Your investment is also a lot lower with lee presses and dies.

[AggieMM]

AggieMM - Your calculations do not take into account the main cost savings of reloading - you get to use the brass over and over again. Try recalculating using $0.0014 each for brass. If you reuse the brass 25 times the cost is actually $0.036/25 = $0.0014 per round. So you are actually saving $0.068/round. It's not the same as winning the lottery, but it does bring the cost down much more than you think. If you reuse the brass 100 times or get some at the range for free, the cost is even less.

Very true, I haven't looked at that comparison. As you see, in my press costs, I don't have a tumbler/media separator listed. At this time, I buy all new brass. However, I may re-run the numbers with those included to see what happens. I have thought about starting to collect brass at the range.

Ryan

[Stupid]

You guys are buying things way too expensive.

I can get you 9mm FMJ bullets delivered at $70/1000 or $135/2000. How many do you want?

You save even more on loading rifle rounds.

[CWOOD]

You guys are buying things way too expensive.

I can get you 9mm FMJ delivered at $70/1000 or $135/2000. How many do you want?

You save even more on loading rifle rounds.

Can you also get an equally good deal on .45 FMJ?

Ryan, thanks for your helpful information. I will 'borrow' your spreadsheets to see how .45 reloading with a Lee press works out. I notice that you also include the cost of a chrono in your calculations. That will make an impact on the overall cost. What is "as it should be"?

Everybody, I am really enjoying the discussion and appreciated the input. Keep it coming.

[AggieMM]

Ryan, thanks for your helpful information. I will 'borrow' your spreadsheets to see how .45 reloading with a Lee press works out. I notice that you also include the cost of a chrono in your calculations. That will make an impact on the overall cost. What is "as it should be"?

Carl, the as-it-should be is the accessory list from Brian Enos for the Dillon press. He believes the base model is "not complete", and you need the other items as well. Check out his site for more information:

Brian Enos Dillon Site

I can get you 9mm FMJ delivered at $70/1000 or $135/2000. How many do you want?

WOW, that equates to ~3.50 a box of 50. What brand is the 9mm?

Ryan