UT Safety Protocol--Armed Subject

[lws380]

I happened to be at UT in Austin this past week and noticed this protocol posted in an employee work area. The first bulleted item under the Armed Subject section struck a cord with me.

4. If the armed subject comes into your class or office:
*There is no one procedure the authorities can recommend in this situation.

I took this to mean they do not have a clue on what you should do! If you were allowed to carry on a campus the first bulleted item could say: Shoot the armed intruder if you get the chance!

This is the link to read it all. http://www.utexas.edu/police/safety/

[casingpoint]

There is no one procedure the authorities can recommend in this situation"

LOL. That's what too much tea does to you. And just what are Texas A&M official recommending: " There are several procedures the authorities can recommend in this situation, but being as they won't be immediately available on scene, students are advised in the interim period to:

A. Shoot the "Disruptive Individual" until he stops breathing on his own accord.
B. Stab same until same occurs.
C. Beat same until same occurs.
D. Call Old Army to come pick up the body.

[ictoamn]

Attempting to overcome the armed subject with force is a last resort that should only be initiated in the most extreme circumstances.

I'm pretty sure that an armed subject in the room shooting is a last resort and a very extreme circumstance. It's just too bad that you cannot properly defend yourself should an armed individual cause an extreme circumstance.

[Penn]

There is no one procedure the authorities can recommend in this situation"

B. Stab same until same occurs.

The old adage about bringing a knife to a gunfight comes to mind.

[casingpoint]

The old adage about bringing a knife to a gunfight comes to mind.

True, but knives are a highly concealable and effective tactical choice with few legal hurdles that anyone can implement immediately. I'm assuming that folders up to the five inch minimum blade length are legal in Texas.

[austin]

In Texas it is 5.5 inches. A good locking 4 inch folder is plenty enough.

Knives are more effective than firearms for most types of encounters and for guns within a few feet. Knife fights are three times more likely to kill than gunfights.

Most people do not know they are being stabbed and in FOF scenarios knife users have repeatedly taken down gunmen who have gotten too close.

If you can deploy your knife as fast as your pistol and are within two steps of someone, then you can disarm and then and mortally wound them in a second.

The Tueller drill cuts both ways.

[dukalmighty]

4. If the armed subject comes into your class or office:
*There is no one procedure the authorities can recommend in this situation.

I can think of one and hopefully you're wearing a depends

[macktruckturner]

In Texas it is 5.5 inches. A good locking 4 inch folder is plenty enough.

Knives are more effective than firearms for most types of encounters and for guns within a few feet. Knife fights are three times more likely to kill than gunfights.

Most people do not know they are being stabbed and in FOF scenarios knife users have repeatedly taken down gunmen who have gotten too close.

If you can deploy your knife as fast as your pistol and are within two steps of someone, then you can disarm and then and mortally wound them in a second.

The Tueller drill cuts both ways.

Unfortunately the statistics go both ways, you're also much more likely to be killed with your own knife than your own gun. If you do not know exactly how to deploy an edged tool as a weapon, they are of extreme danger to all involved. The Tueller drill certainly cuts both ways, but I'd wager a good many folks have singularly focused their defensive options into either firearms training, or h2h. Few have holistically approached defense, to include h2h, firearms, and edged weapons.

[45 4 life]

On the serious side of this post. They should at least recommend going low and looking for cover. The recent shootings have not been the type where students are given warning before the shooting starts. There has been little chance of negociating a way out, the shootings seem automatic and random.

There are only 3 typical reactions that are going to occour: 1. Run for the nearest door. Can you imagine the damage 1 person can do with a wad of panicked people stacking up at a door. 2. Duck and cover, hope for out of site, out of mind. 3. What in my opinion is the most instinctive is to freeze in place and become a stationary target.

After talking with my daughter who is a current college student I have found that there is far to many of these students with the attitude, "It won't happen here" No one is preparing themselves with what if scenarios like the members of this forum do. The sheeple will be sheeple. Far to many of faculties are anti-gun, anti-reactive. The statement at most schools should read, Well we cannot tell you what to do, but do not fight back, just accept what happens. Our children are taught in schools at the earliest of ages to turn the other cheek. If little Johnny hits you go tell the teacher and she will take care of it. Do not under any circumstances hit little Johnny back. It's not just the teachers either, look at the parents. The interview that was posted discussing on campus carry had the father of a wounded student saying NO, I do not wish my son had been armed and fought back. I wanted to grab that guy and shake him, try to wake him up. Then I decided, he did not really say that, could be the british accent, I did not hear him correctly, so I listened again. Then I wanted to slap him. Then the son says no I do not wish I had been armed. WHAT! You do not want the right nor the means to fight back! You just want to sit there and take it, go through life accepting everything that comes your way, grow up and have kids of your own, but not be willing to protect them from molestors or killers. If we could somehow question those who were killed would we get the same answer? There was no one on that program who lost a child. Would they say the same thing?

Members of the faculties should be out there saying, We want to have the right to be armed just like airline pilots, we have the right to protect ourselves and our students, but we not hearing any of that are we. Maybe the suggestion should be when the armed person shows up, go get the Dean, he will handle the situation for you. Possible the decision makers at the campuses, you know the ones that are saying "We do not want our students armed" maybe they should volunteer to go into the classrooms when the first alarm is given. Don't wait for SWAT to show up, go on in there and tell that person about your desire to keep guns out of your classrooms. Reason with the perp and I am sure they will understand and disarm immeadiately.

Sorry about the rant, but having a daughter in school has this topic on my radar. I just finished reading the post about OK passing legislature allowing someone previously trained to carry on campus. This does not include CHL's, only those trained in the military or simular. It is a step in the right direction, but not enough. You can get college credits for many things while on campus, why not firearm courses. Why not have classes to train students to carry? My daughter is taking a martial arts class right now.

[flintknapper]

Reason with the perp and I am sure they will understand and disarm immediately.

I am equally certain of this.

Sorry about the rant, but having a daughter in school has this topic on my radar.

I too...have a Daughter in college... and am concerned for her safety there.

I just finished reading the post about OK passing legislature allowing someone previously trained to carry on campus. This does not include CHL's, only those trained in the military or simular. It is a step in the right direction, but not enough.

Agreed. It is a somewhat "neutered" version of what was wanted, but a start nonetheless.

You can get college credits for many things while on campus, why not firearm courses. Why not have classes to train students to carry? My daughter is taking a martial arts class right now.

Excellent suggestion on the firearms training class. Glad to see your Daughter taking a MA class, it is a skill she is much more likely to need than the use of deadly force. Hopefully, she is studying an art that teaches effective "street techniques".

[Lodge2004]

The interview that was posted discussing on campus carry had the father of a wounded student saying NO, I do not wish my son had been armed and fought back. I wanted to grab that guy and shake him, try to wake him up. Then I decided, he did not really say that, could be the british accent, I did not hear him correctly, so I listened again. Then I wanted to slap him. Then the son says no I do not wish I had been armed. WHAT! You do not want the right nor the means to fight back! You just want to sit there and take it, go through life accepting everything that comes your way, grow up and have kids of your own, but not be willing to protect them from molestors or killers. If we could somehow question those who were killed would we get the same answer? There was no one on that program who lost a child. Would they say the same thing?

Frequently I see quotes from people along the lines of "...I don't want to live in a world where everyone needs to carry a gun..." I suspect that many would feel the same way as the father and son you quote above. Unfortunately, the ones who probably feel differently are those who died a violent death at the hands of a criminal. I imagine in the microsecond before their death, they felt differently about the subject of armed defense. I have little compassion for individuals who make a conscious choice to ignore reality, but do wish they would avoid any role (parent, caretaker, teacher, etc...) where an innocent person may rely on them for protection.

[45 4 life]

Frequently I see quotes from people along the lines of "...I don't want to live in a world where everyone needs to carry a gun..." I suspect that many would feel the same way as the father and son you quote above. Unfortunately, the ones who probably feel differently are those who died a violent death at the hands of a criminal. I imagine in the microsecond before their death, they felt differently about the subject of armed defense. I have little compassion for individuals who make a conscious choice to ignore reality, but do wish they would avoid any role (parent, caretaker, teacher, etc...) where an innocent person may rely on them for protection.

I actually agree with them when they say they do not want to live in a world where everyone NEEDS to carry a gun. I don't want to live there either, but my response is that I want to live in a world where I can carry because I WANT to carry, and when I and like minded individuals can do that then no one should have to have a gun because they NEED to have it. That would solve both of our problems. Man the antis do not like it when I say that.

Glad to see your Daughter taking a MA class, it is a skill she is much more likely to need than the use of deadly force. Hopefully, she is studying an art that teaches effective "street techniques".

Now that she is following a little more in dads footsteps than her brother actually did (not complaining he is 6'4 and 300 +, not many is going to mess with him)I am helping her along with some of the street techniques that are very effective. The home course will include some blade work next year.

[Liberty]

...
Our children are taught in schools at the earliest of ages to turn the other cheek.

Just a thought ...

I am pleased to hear that some of our children are getting a Christian education.
I was was also taught the same many years ago. They were words from the greatest teacher. Although I can't say I have always been able to live by them, The sermon on the mount set some pretty high standards.

"But, I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Its not so easy knowing where the line is to drawn, and I'm constantly trying to understand and adjust just where that line is.

[dukalmighty]

I happened to be at UT in Austin this past week and noticed this protocol posted in an employee work area. The first bulleted item under the Armed Subject section struck a cord with me.

4. If the armed subject comes into your class or office:
*There is no one procedure the authorities can recommend in this situation.

I took this to mean they do not have a clue on what you should do! If you were allowed to carry on a campus the first bulleted item could say: Shoot the armed intruder if you get the chance!

This is the link to read it all. http://www.utexas.edu/police/safety/

I think you're suppose to call 911 and say hes here, can you hear him shooting

[Paladin]

I'm working on a degree part time at UT Austin. Just the other day one of my professors who is anti-gun, and shall remain un-named, suggested she was thinking about carrying her "mace" just in case.

My thought was, well that's a start... but I sure wouldn't want to use that against a gun armed attacker.

But I was comforted on the thought of the blade in my pocket...

Warriortalk had a pretty interesting discussion on the subject a while back. They've found through force-on-force simulations that in the right circumstances a blade can be pretty effective against mass shooters... not my first choice... but the best legal option available.