corp. of engineers lake fishing?

[eric]

Couzin my be right on changes with the usace I hope, but for now here is link http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/boat/where/ It gives the reservoir controlling authority with adresses and phone numbers to ask the question or questions that I am needing to know. It has other info too. Thanks.

[couzin]

The Army Corp. of Engineers is a dirty word to a lot of people (that being the case I apologize for my language Mr. Cotton) since they were given charge of "protecting the environment" back in the 1970s with all the environmental and "endangered species" acts.

Again - a real misunderstanding on your part - the USACE must comply with Federal laws (like the Clean Air Act, the Environmental Protection Act, the Clean Water Act, the Endangered Species Act, etc) just every other Federal agency. USACE was never 'put in charge' of anything. They must comply with the laws as a Federal agency whether permitting (when a permit is required from the Corps like a section 404 Clean Water Act permit), or constructing a project or building something that must comply with all of the Federal laws, regulations, and Presidential Orders that have been created to guide such activities (there is a huge long list of things that have to be met just met the conditions of something simple like placing riprap along an eroding streambank). They(the USACE) sure as heck are not in charge of any of these things like you state - nor did they create the laws. We all did when we complained (as a nation) about the loss of habitat, loss of species of wildlife, smokestacks and oilburning cars, water that tasted funny, buildings that got placed in someone's back yard, and decided that every old building deserved to be saved.

Yep - USACE has left a bad taste is some folks mouths - but it isn't because of who the Corps is. The Corps receives orders from Congress, salutes, and moves out. They are not out there intentionally trying to ruin someone's day.

Essayons folks!!!

[couzin]

Couzin my be right on changes with the usace I hope, but for now here is link http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/boat/where/ It gives the reservoir controlling authority with adresses and phone numbers to ask the question or questions that I am needing to know. It has other info too. Thanks.

I am guessing the original question really has not been clearly answered. If the Corps owns the land, and a portion, or the entire lands above the waterline and across the reservoir bottom and surface of the reservoir waters, has been licensed (leased) to another entity (the State, TPWD, a county, a city, a private company, whatever), the Federal laws and regulations still apply. Ostensibly - if a USACE ranger with citation authority is patrolling the park or the water (even if the entire thing is being operated by a State entity or someone else), one could receive a citation from the range IF the ranger could determine you had a weapon in violation of the regulation. OR - the ranger could call upon local law enforcement (including the TPWD game wardens) to effect an arrest whereby you would be arrested and charged with Federal violations (by Federal authorities - not the game warden, although the wardens have the authority to detain and transport to a jail until the Feds take over). What action is taken depends on how flagrant the violation and the ranger perception of the threat the actor poses. Given the recent (Dec 07?) shooting of a Corps ranger in NM - they are probably a little apprehensive right now. Corps rangers are charged with regulatory enforcement but go at it unarmed. It took some 10 years just to get armed with pepper spray recently (05 I think it was).

I wrote to HQ USACE in 2006 gritching about the inconsistency and archaic application of the Corps regulation - especially given that some parks and reservoirs are operated by TPWD which specifically allows CHL licensed individuals to carry weapons and that the US Forest Service allows CHL - and received a letter back from the office of counsel that simply says the Texas CHL does not apply on Corps fee owned lands, and the Corps regulation as well as the Federal laws have precedent over the State law. It is a PDF and I would be glad to share it now as I have in the past if you PM me.

I am not jumping to the defense of my former employer - I'm just saying stay legal until things get changed. Interior is revamping its regulations - there are other forces at work to change the rules - just gotta hang in there...

[Doug.38PR]

couzin,
what you are basically saying is that they don't make the laws they just enforce them. I understand that. But the fact is, like the ATF to us gun owners, they are a dirty word to a lot of people. A lot of rural people don't like having to mess with them and all the government bureocratic bunk and red tape that comes with them in order to do a simple thing or be able to do what you want on your own property.

a fellow I know once told me he wanted to do something like plant some bushes or flowers in his back yard which backed up to a bayou or creek and he called the ACOE for advice....wished he'd never even picked up the phone. He eventually just said "forget it" and left his backyard a mess rather deal with the mess the ACOE would have put him through.

I've heard of horror stories of people having to fight the ACOE for their own land in court for years.

These Federal laws that have been passed by the influence of hippies, environmental wackos, anti-gunners and socialists over the past 40-50 years really are a pain in liberty's hind end. Your statement reminds me of Bush the First's indignation at Wayne LaPierre's statement calling the ATF jack-booted thugs. But LaPierre was right. Now, the ACOE of course is a little different because they do other things and weren't founded for the purpose of such things as enforcing violation property rights (which, when it comes right down to it, is all these so-called "environmental laws" are all about) and they still perform valid functions (they have existed long before the 1960s) But still they are the governmental entity that carries out the wishes of the state just like the ATF.

[boomerang]

Yep - USACE has left a bad taste is some folks mouths - but it isn't because of who the Corps is. The Corps receives orders from Congress, salutes, and moves out. They are not out there intentionally trying to ruin someone's day.

That's a cop out. They can say they're just following orders but that doesn't excuse them violating civil rights by infringing 2A.

[Mike1951]

I guess they do learn, eventually.

It was only the not too distant past when the ACOE cured every problem by paving.

Rivers, creeks, ditches, no matter. Pave that sucker!

If your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail!

[KBCraig]

couzin,
what you are basically saying is that they don't make the laws they just enforce them.

In the case of the gun ban, COE did make the law -- literally!

[gmckinl]

for a good and quick listing of what lakes are Corp lakes in any given state, try this...

http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/visitors/visitors.cfm

[Doug.38PR]

couzin,
what you are basically saying is that they don't make the laws they just enforce them.

In the case of the gun ban, COE did make the law -- literally!

Ummm... ..yes. Good point.

[iflyabeech]

for a good and quick listing of what lakes are Corp lakes in any given state, try this...

http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/visitors/visitors.cfm

at least its a 4 hour drive to the closest one for me!

[flechero]

I believe the correct term in wolves, not sharks.

The boat ramp areas are what scare me... a few late night/early morning "confrontations" could have gone very bad, if it weren't for luckily convincing "bluffs" on my part.

[eric]

With many restrictions on chl carry on I was thinking, what else are issues, I sent mail to public affairs ,swf about even driving a car across a corps of engineers dam with chl with ( with carry) Illegal or not. Here is reply, Under our policies and title 36, loaded firearms are prohibited, other than for the authorized purposes stated in those rules, on federal lands administered by the corps. of engineers. Our developed recreation areas and other project lands are posted with signs stating " No Firearms" and in those areas, the rules are enforced by our park rangers and local law enforcement . Got no real answer to the question and I have never seen a sign stating No firearms. Maybe someone knows what it says without having to read thru that again.

[tarkus]

With many restrictions on chl carry on I was thinking, what else are issues, I sent mail to public affairs ,swf about even driving a car across a corps of engineers dam with chl with ( with carry) Illegal or not. Here is reply, Under our policies and title 36, loaded firearms are prohibited, other than for the authorized purposes stated in those rules, on federal lands administered by the corps. of engineers. Our developed recreation areas and other project lands are posted with signs stating " No Firearms" and in those areas, the rules are enforced by our park rangers and local law enforcement . Got no real answer to the question and I have never seen a sign stating No firearms. Maybe someone knows what it says without having to read thru that again.

It means the Army will take away your gun if they find it.

[KC5AV]

I've seen signs at the local lake. It's just a sign that says No Firearms. It's been a couple of years since my last trip out there. I'll try to get out there in the next week or so to be sure.