Can someone please explain to me what 30.05 means to a CHL

[ducks4brkfast]

holder as opposed to anyone else?

In other words, is there anything about the statute that's of special consideration to a CHL holder?

Is there anything more to it that just trespass by a person?

Thanks!

[SD4]

30.05 is a 'guns prohibited' sign that does not apply to CHL holders. Posting has to be 30.06 with certain criteria to apply to CHL.

[seamusTX]

I don't think I understand your question.

PC 30.05 makes it an offense to go into or onto certain premises or vehicles without permission. The main thing of concern to CHL holders is that having a firearm while trespassing makes it a class A misdemeanor.

- Jim

[AEA]

30.05 is a 'guns prohibited' sign that does not apply to CHL holders. Posting has to be 30.06 with certain criteria to apply to CHL.

Posting has to be 30.06 OR 51%.
If you are confronted about being armed in a 30.05 posted place, you can only be charged if you have refused written or verbal instructions to leave.

[Charles L. Cotton]

30.05 is a 'guns prohibited' sign that does not apply to CHL holders. Posting has to be 30.06 with certain criteria to apply to CHL.

Posting has to be 30.06 OR 51%.
If you are confronted about being armed in a 30.05 posted place, you can only be charged if you have refused written or verbal instructions to leave.

Be careful. TPC §30.05 can be used to keep an armed CHL off the property, so long as the reason for excluding people is not because they are carrying a gun. If you trespass on private property while you are armed, it's a Class A Misdemeanor, not a Class C. If the only notice is a generic "no-guns" sign that doesn't comply with TPC §30.06, then it may be very hard if not impossible to get a conviction. But if it simply says "NO TRESPASSING" and an armed CHL crosses the sign, then the CHL has a problem.

Chas.

[ducks4brkfast]

Thanks guys.

Yall weren't misunderstanding. I was just verifying I wasn't missing anything in the PC.

[Crossfire]

Well then, how about this...

[Liberty]

30.05 is a 'guns prohibited' sign that does not apply to CHL holders. Posting has to be 30.06 with certain criteria to apply to CHL.

Posting has to be 30.06 OR 51%.
If you are confronted about being armed in a 30.05 posted place, you can only be charged if you have refused written or verbal instructions to leave.

a 51% sign is not a determination of the legality of concealed entry. Anyone can put up a 51% sign. and some 51% places don't seem to have signs posted. The sign is only a fair warning, it is up to the CHL holder to determine whether a place makes more than 51% of its income from served alcohol sales.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Well then, how about this...

Nope, this doesn't apply to CHLs. The only way TPC §30.05 can be used with a CHL is if the reason for excluding him/her is something other than their possession of a handgun. This sign makes it clear the exclusion would be based solely on having a handgun.

Chas.

[Keith B]

Crossfire,

Do you mind sharing where this is??

[Crossfire]

Burlington Northern, Fort Worth, at the visitor's center.

[AEA]

30.05 is a 'guns prohibited' sign that does not apply to CHL holders. Posting has to be 30.06 with certain criteria to apply to CHL.

Posting has to be 30.06 OR 51%.
If you are confronted about being armed in a 30.05 posted place, you can only be charged if you have refused written or verbal instructions to leave.

a 51% sign is not a determination of the legality of concealed entry. Anyone can put up a 51% sign. and some 51% places don't seem to have signs posted. The sign is only a fair warning, it is up to the CHL holder to determine whether a place makes more than 51% of its income from served alcohol sales.

You are wrong. The TABC makes the determination (NOT THE CHL HOLDER) and requires the establishment to post the correct 51% sign (if applicable).

PC 46.035 Unlawful carry of a handgun by license holder.
(1)
".......if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as
determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code".

[KBCraig]

a 51% sign is not a determination of the legality of concealed entry. Anyone can put up a 51% sign. and some 51% places don't seem to have signs posted. The sign is only a fair warning, it is up to the CHL holder to determine whether a place makes more than 51% of its income from served alcohol sales.

You are wrong. The TABC makes the determination (NOT THE CHL HOLDER) and requires the establishment to post the correct 51% sign (if applicable).

PC 46.035 Unlawful carry of a handgun by license holder.
(1)
".......if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as
determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code".

The burden is on the CHL holder, no matter what sign is or isn't posted. If there is no sign posted (but there should have been), the CHL is going to jail. That is why the CHL holder must make the determination for himself, completely independent of TABC's determination of 51% status, or the establishment's compliance with TABC sign regulations.

I believe that was LIberty's point.

[Liberty]

Posting has to be 30.06 OR 51%.
If you are confronted about being armed in a 30.05 posted place, you can only be charged if you have refused written or verbal instructions to leave.

a 51% sign is not a determination of the legality of concealed entry. Anyone can put up a 51% sign. and some 51% places don't seem to have signs posted. The sign is only a fair warning, it is up to the CHL holder to determine whether a place makes more than 51% of its income from served alcohol sales.

You are wrong. The TABC makes the determination (NOT THE CHL HOLDER) and requires the establishment to post the correct 51% sign (if applicable).

PC 46.035 Unlawful carry of a handgun by license holder.
(1)
".......if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as
determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code".

TABC determines if a place is a 51% and request that a sign be posted. If a place has been determined to be 51% by the TABC and they do not post the proper signage, the CHL holder is still held accountable. If someone puts a 51% sign in an inapropriate place, the sign is meaningless. I have seen bars that are obviously 51% places with no visible signs. and 51% signs in lots of inapropriate places. My point is that the 51% sign is not what regulates us. It is whether or not the business is a 51% establishment that really matters. The sign only serves as a warning that the establishment might be illegal for us to carry into. I have seen 51% signs in fine dining establishments liquor stores and gas stations. They mean nothing. Likewise carrying into a bar that has a missing sign is no excuse.