DC Rejects Handgun Application

[57Coastie]

I can not imagine the arrogance needed to refuse to comply with an order of the Supreme Court of the United States of America.

With respect, in Heller the Supreme Court did not "order" the District of Columbia to register Mr. Hellers handgun(s). This may be considered nit-picking, but it is a very important nit, if we hope to really understand what has happened, and what is likely to happen next, in the judicial system. It is likely that Mr. Heller and his lawyers are very carefully setting the stage for him to seek an order from the U. S. District Court for the District of Columbia, and in the normal orderly judicial process that is the court which must likely first consider the Supreme Court's decision, and decide what it thinks it means in Mr. Heller's case. What we think it means is a nice academic question, but we are going to have to wait a while to really find out how it is going to be applied to specific circumstances.

There is no question but that the DC authorities could, if they chose, decide that if they do not register Mr. Heller's firearm(s) they will ultimately be ordered to do so, and they could issue the registration without waiting for a court order. This often happens. Here on the forum, for example, we have seen other jurisdictions apparently take steps to loosen their regulations, not waiting for that court order. On the other hand, the DC authorities are obviously interposing every obstacle they can in order to resist that registration, until such time as Mr. Heller gets a court order which does indeed order the registration.

It could happen that the Supreme Court will actually have to issue an order based on its Heller decision some day, but when it does, that order would most likely be to a lower court, ordering that court to comply with its decision by, in turn, issuing an order to the appropriate authorities.

Meanwhile, as we post ranting and raving icons here on this forum, not recognizing the true state of affairs here, we do nothing other than further confuse the matter in the minds of the general public.

Jim

[57Coastie]

And what of the semi auto that he tried to license?

Isn't it now an illegal handgun by DC ordinances?

Wonder if they gave any thought to arresting Heller?

The citizens of DC, and perhaps those of our nation at large, owe an awful lot to Mr. Heller already, and he seems to be forging ahead with his goal in the courts, but so far he and his lawyers have taken some care to set this up while at the same time avoiding his arrest. His arrest might be, and might have been, a quicker way to test some of DC's laws and regulations, since criminal cases usually take precedence time-wise over civil cases, but not many of us would prefer to take that avenue if others were available. Many protesters of the denial of other constitutional rights, on the other hand, have decided to go to jail first in order to regain stolen civil liberties. While not at all a reflection on Mr. Heller, one makes one's choice. As a matter of fact, recognizing that we usually don't know much more about any case than we do know about it, it is arguable that Mr. Heller may have exposed himself greater at this stage than he did earlier. I really don't think that DC wants to get an even larger black eye on this than it already has.

Jim

[WildBill]

I really don't think that DC wants to get an even larger black eye on this than it already has. Jim

I don't think DC officials care how large their "black eye" becomes.

[57Coastie]

I really don't think that DC wants to get an even larger black eye on this than it already has. Jim

I don't think DC officials care how large their "black eye" becomes.

I do not necessarily disagree with you, WildBill. I based my probably naive statement on my understanding that Heller attempted to register a semiautomatic handgun. (His 7-round magazine makes it sound like an M1911, doesn't it?). Since just the possession of the weapon is reportedly illegal in DC, I would think that his application for registration would itself provide probable cause for a search warrant, as contrasted with his application to register a revolver, which, I understand, would not be illegal were it disabled. In the latter case it would take a stretch to get a search warrant. I am equally guilty of doing what I have accused others of doing -- basing my comments on possibly incorrect assumptions.

Jim

[WildBill]

I really don't think that DC wants to get an even larger black eye on this than it already has. Jim

I don't think DC officials care how large their "black eye" becomes.

I do not necessarily disagree with you, WildBill. I am equally guilty of doing what I have accused others of doing -- basing my comments on possibly incorrect assumptions. Jim

Mine was just an observation. DC Officials have no shame. They disregard the Constitution, the Supreme Court and the will of the people. I agree that Mr. Heller is certainly "walking the walk."

[The Annoyed Man]

I have read elsewhere that his semi-auto was a .45. That and the 7 round capacity makes it seem likely that it was a 1911.

I am surprised that they allowed him to leave the station with the weapon - which I assume that they did do, but which the article doesn't make clear one way or the other - since its mere possession is barred by law in DC since it cannot be registered according to their definition of it as a machine gun. But given press biases and general gun ignorance, it seems unlikely that they would have left out that the weapon had been confiscated if that is what had happened.

The whole thing is MUBAR (messed up beyond all recognition - 10 yr old daughter rule).

[Kalrog]

I am surprised that they allowed him to leave the station with the weapon

He didn't bring the handgun to the station - probably knowing what would happen. He went for the application without having the "machine gun pistol" with him. IIRC, it is still in Maryland.

[57Coastie]

I have read elsewhere that his semi-auto was a .45. That and the 7 round capacity makes it seem likely that it was a 1911.

I am surprised that they allowed him to leave the station with the weapon - which I assume that they did do, but which the article doesn't make clear one way or the other - since its mere possession is barred by law in DC since it cannot be registered according to their definition of it as a machine gun. But given press biases and general gun ignorance, it seems unlikely that they would have left out that the weapon had been confiscated if that is what had happened.

The whole thing is MUBAR (messed up beyond all recognition - 10 yr old daughter rule).

I guess that is safe under the forum rules if the moderators cannot read our minds.

More on point, AM, I see a post up above which says that Heller chose to not take his semi into the authorities. I do wish we could find somewhere a thorough, but correct, article on what Heller has done. We, including yours truly, are wandering around in the dark, which is frustrating.

Jim

[57Coastie]

Sorry, KalRog. My post passed yours in cyberspace.

BTW, here is a somewhat current article on Heller's latest efforts.

Of course the fact that he keeps his semi in Maryland moots my search warrant thesis. He seems to still be taking care to not expose himself to arrest, so WildBill you are correct when it comes to whether or not DC is taking advantage of an opportunity to arrest Heller.

Jim

[Charles L. Cotton]

The attempt to register a semi-auto handgun is a required procedural step to file suit. This is round two for the District of Columbia and it will be yet another loss for D.C. I hope the court issues sanctions this time around.

Chas.

[57Coastie]

The attempt to register a semi-auto handgun is a required procedural step to file suit. This is round two for the District of Columbia and it will be yet another loss for D.C. I hope the court issues sanctions this time around.

Chas.

I know through personal experience, Chas., that the DC court is very busy, and I would not expect it to tolerate being endlessly hassled with this case if the facts show DC is clearly, intentionally and wrongfully stalling. When they issue their first order I would not be at all surprised to see them put the DC authorities on clear notice that they will not be used as a participant in the stalling process.

Jim

[OverEasy]

So......., if you hold em 'gansta' style does that make em 'side loaders' instead of 'bottom loaders'?
It's not the guns that are dangerous, it's the lawyers! (sorry Chas.)
Now that the supream court has established that to "Keep and Bear Arms" is an indivigual right, they need to move on to the "Shall not be infringed" part!
I know that the Heller case is important to the whole country but I would have just moved out of Washington DC.
I'll stop now, before I violate any rules..........................., OE

[KBCraig]

Unbelievable...

No, quite believable. It's to be expected, actually.

At this stage of the game, it's a matter of moving the down marker. DC is playing it safe, betting that the courts won't cry "foul!" and throw the marker to the other end of the field.

They're right; they won't. There will be a lawsuit over these regulations, and the court will not just outright declare that DC must scrap all licensing/registration/storage schemes. Instead, the court will say, "No, that goes too far. Try again."

And so they'll try again. And again. And again. Each time they'll move the marker a minuscule distance, but always moving forward (from their perspective). Eventually they'll reach a "reasonable restriction" that the courts refuse to reject, and that will become the established marker.

[dukesean]

So......., if you hold em 'gansta' style does that make em 'side loaders' instead of 'bottom loaders'?

hahahahaa!!!

Well, since all the gang bangers in DC all have handguns, we'll have to assume that you are correct, they own side loaders.

[Charles L. Cotton]

It's not the guns that are dangerous, it's the lawyers! (sorry Chas.)

Actually, it was non-attorney elected officials of D.C. that trampled constitutional rights and lawyers that restored them.

Chas.