knife sharpening for the perfectionist

[mr.72]

A couple of years ago I bought a Lansky rod-guide hone kit and decided I was going to seriously learn how to sharpen my knives. I have a number of pocket knives, folders, and kitchen knives that I have sharpened with the Lansky kit with mostly excellent results. Maybe someone is more of a master than I am and would like to offer some advice.

BTW I'm not looking for non-fixed-angle sharpening (like by hand with a stone) or these stick-shaped sharpeners or cheap kitchen store sharpeners. If you're familiar with a rod-guide hone and have some input on using it effectively, then I am all ears.

Here's my sharpening protocol:

1. Mark the edge with a blue or red Sharpee so I can see what I have honed
2. Clamp the knife in the rod-guide and start with the medium stone at the appropriate angle (25 degrees for my pocket knives, 20 or 15 for kitchen knives).
3. Hone "onto the hone" (that is, draw the stone towards the blade) evenly until the marking of the Sharpee is honed off on both sides
4. Mark the edge again and repeat with the fine stone
5. The last step is to use masking tape to affix some 1000 grit sandpaper onto the coarse hone, and then polish the edge with the 1000 grit. It turns out a mirror finish and the blade is razor sharp

OK, so it would seem I have this down. The problem is that invariably either the edge goes away rather quickly without a whole lot of use (coupla weeks using my pocket knife to cut zip ties and boxes and that kind of thing occasionally), or I notice that there is still a "burr" on the edge that I didn't notice while sharpening, so either I overlooked it or it somehow popped up with use.

For example I have a Gerber Evo Jr. that I carry daily (small lockback folder, partially serrated edge) that came from the factory with a 30 degree edge. I sharpened it with the Lansky a few times on the 30 degree setting and then eventually switched to 25 deg which is more like 27-28 deg. Once I finish sharpening it then it is perfect but it just doesn't last. OTOH my father just game me a new knife, a Gerber Paraframe that's a little bigger and the factory edge, while not as sharp or even close to as finely polished as my work, has lasted about 4x as long so far as my Evo Jr. job.

I guess if I quit with the medium or fine stone, then maybe I'd end up with more like a Gerber factory edge ?? It's definitely rougher but I guess that holds up a lot longer.

Any comments on this? I know this is rather OT but this is the off-topic forum :) Figure some of you guys have sharpened knives.

[Commander Cody]

For cutting meat the finer the grit the better, but for a work knife you are right... stop with the medium grit.

[Reloader]

Having sharpened knives for over 40 years, one problem I see is you are not burnishing the blade, as in stropping a razor with a leather strap. What I use is a GLASS Dr. Pepper bottle. You hold it by the neck and strop the knife away from you. This will harden the blade and finish it by removing burrs. It will also add a degree of hardness to the blade without removing the temper. Hope this helps. The bottle has to be Glass and has to be Dr. Peper because of the taper.

[sbb]

I normally finish up on a 7000 grit Japanese water stone then burnish on a leather strap.

[jimlongley]

I have been using Lanskys for many years and really appreciate the edge they put on, and I echo the responses about burnishing and stropping to remove burrs left in the sharpening process.

Like the others, I feel that for a general purpose blade you should stop at medium. In some cases sharper is not necessarily better, a sharper blade will burr over more quickly than a less sharp one, which is why you see a barber strop his razor before every shave, and sometimes during a shave.

My grandpappy shaved with a straight razor when I was a young lad and I can remember him demonstrating the difference between a really sharp shaving blade and one not so sharp, the sharp blade would glide effortlessly across the skin while the not so sharp would drag and even result in cuts as the blade sawed in response to hand movements.

[saj111]

i've worked in machine shops for the last forty years (sounds like a long time when i put it that way) and have noticed that almost everything is abrasive to some degree. notice how fast cutting cardboard will dull a knife? after cutting something turn the knife around and strop it on something. i most often use a piece of cardboard and my knife is almost never dull. i seldom need to go back to even a medium stone. most of the time, if my knife needs a little extra work, i will use 320 wet or dry sand paper.
the stropping is the key; it keeps it sharp.

[KaiserB]

i've worked in machine shops for the last forty years (sounds like a long time when i put it that way) and have noticed that almost everything is abrasive to some degree. notice how fast cutting cardboard will dull a knife? after cutting something turn the knife around and strop it on something. i most often use a piece of cardboard and my knife is almost never dull. i seldom need to go back to even a medium stone. most of the time, if my knife needs a little extra work, i will use 320 wet or dry sand paper.
the stropping is the key; it keeps it sharp.

This is a good idea. I read once that Ernest Emmerson suggests using the back of a legal pad to strop knives. The fiber cardstock is mildly abrasive and works well.

[jimlongley]

When I was a teenager I was compulsed by my parents to date the daughter of friends of theirs - not that there was anything wrong with the young lady, far from it, I just wanted to make my own choices in such things, and besides she was rich and snotty.

As I stood in the front hall of the house awaiting the young lady's appearance from upstairs - any of y'all remember the days when a young gentleman would do that, complete with flowers? Anyway, as I stood there, I hauled out a piece of paper towel I had in my pocket and proceeded to clean my glasses - I was a gearhead and always had paper towels and other such things in my pockets, even in suits.

For my efforts I received a fifteen minute, at least it seemed that long to me, lecture on how abrasive paper is, what various clays and dirt are added as whiteners and stiffeners, and what other junk was in there to begin with.

I never really forgot the lecture, although I can't recall the young lady's name, and have always tried to use cutters more suitable to the task to cut paper and cardboard out of respect for my knives, and I clean my glasses with soft cloths.

[saj111]

well, jim, you've shown your age on this one. you must be almost as old as me.
my question is: what, pray tell, is more suitable for cutting cardboard than a knife? i love my knives. my wife won't let me go down store aisles where there knives (or guns) for fear of my getting stuck looking. i can SHOP at a knife display.
ok, you should be laughing now!
seriously, try my method. whatever you cut, you won't have to worry about carrying a dull knife very often.

my father in law and i have a running joke. when the other pulls out a knife for whatever job, the other will pipe up with "you want a sharp knife for that?" i'm joking but i don't know if he is.

[thankGod]

I too like sharp knives. Mostly for me, it's in the kitchen.

It seems I have tried every system out there. I bought the Lansky on recommendation from a co-worker years ago. What a pain to use, and with minimal results. I also tried some system sold over the internet by a guy that can get his axe sharp enough to shave with. I don't know remember the name of the product. Another pain to use. Both of these systems require some kind of clamp device maintain the angle of hold. I've also had numerous "V" systems using ceramic. The best results I can obtain is freehand from a Tri-Stone. The second best results are from a Chef's Choice Model 120 electric sharpener, and this is much faster.

The only thing to remember when sharpening a knife is to get an even burr on one side of the blade prior to moving to the other. I always hone. Then I give the knives the tomato test.

For those who do not know what the tomato test is...

Let a tomato sit out until its skin is all wrinkly and the tomato is squishy. In other words, a bad tomato. If your knife is sharp enough to cut through the wrinkly skin of the tomato, and the tomato proper, without squishing the tomato, then the knife is sharp. You will not be able to saw at all without squishing. One draw of the knife will be enough (dependent on the length of the blade of course).

[jimlongley]

well, jim, you've shown your age on this one. you must be almost as old as me.
my question is: what, pray tell, is more suitable for cutting cardboard than a knife?

I might be, that date was in 1964.

I use a variety of utility knives and box cutters for cutting cardboard, all I have to do with them when they get dull is either turn the blade around or toss it and put in a new one. No way I would cut cardboard with my blades these days.

I do have to addd, that I still have my old Buck Folding Hunter that I carried in the Navy, and it serves well for rough usage, it has been sharpened so much that the blade is a good inch shorter than it was originally, and much narrower.

My Lanskys have never been a chore to use, I often set up in front of the TV when my wife is watching something and do a batch of knives, kitchen and personal at one time. The only time I ever had a problem with the Lansky syatem was when I tightened the clamp too hard and bent it, I wrote a letter to Lansky and they replaced it.

[Skiprr]

Not the cheapest thing out there, and takes a little time to use...unless, I suppose, you practice with it a lot. But I got the smaller Apex model a few years ago: http://edgeproinc.com/. Best $200 I ever spent for my knives. Being able to set and maintain the exact sharpening angle lets me take full advantage of tough steels like S30V.

[mr.72]

Well I really like the Lansky rig and I think it's easy to use and quick. I can sharpen one of my knives in about 5 minutes. The only thing is if the knife has a false edge on the back side like my Gerber knives, it can be tough to get it to sit firm in the clamp.

Those ceramic "V" shaped ones are junk imho and I can't see how anyone could get consistent results without a fixed angle sharpener of some kind such as the Lansky.