question about carrying on bar patio

[newlife12176]

I live in Fort Worth and frequent a motorcycle bar on Thursday evenings. There is a live band there outside on bike night. I am well aware of the ramifications of carrying inside the bar, but what about outside on the patio? Do the same "premises" standards and definitions apply like with dealing with a school? I know the law states the premises is "inside the school building" The bar has the standard sign inside the window stating it is a felony for the unlicensed or licensed posession of a firearm on these premises. Thanks for any advice.

[nils]

I'm pretty sure that the patio is part of the premises....better safe than sorry.

[LedJedi]

I'm pretty sure that the patio is part of the premises....better safe than sorry.

+1

[bdickens]

I wouldn't push my luck.

[Keith B]

It has been stated before that any are that they can legally serve alcohol in are considered under the 51% law, so the patio is off limits too.

[srothstein]

The problem here is the conflict between the Alcoholic Beverage Code definition of premises and the Penal Code section 46.035 definition of premises. While the Penal code does not include parking lots and so on, the Alcoholic Beverage Code does. The patio is part of the licensed premises.

Based on old case law from pre-CHL days, I would bet the courts would include the patio as part of the licensed premises and therefore forbidden. The case law I refer to comes from old unlawfully carrying charges that were upgraded based on being on a licensed premise.

[KBCraig]

The scary part of this disconnect between the PC and the ABC, is that a taxi driver picking up a fare from the bar, or a pedestrian taking a shortcut through the bar parking lot, or a motorist pulling into the bar parking lot to make a cell phone call (even while the bar is closed!), would all be technically guilty of carrying in a 51% premises, just as if they'd bellied up to the bar.

[airbornerangerboogie]

Play it safe, no carry anywhere near a bar's premisis

[ewhite]

I'm pretty sure that the patio is part of the premises....better safe than sorry.

[NcongruNt]

The scary part of this disconnect between the PC and the ABC, is that a taxi driver picking up a fare from the bar, or a pedestrian taking a shortcut through the bar parking lot, or a motorist pulling into the bar parking lot to make a cell phone call (even while the bar is closed!), would all be technically guilty of carrying in a 51% premises, just as if they'd bellied up to the bar.

While it is technically possible, I doubt this would ever really happen. Entering a bar or its premises as a customer while carrying would make it apparent that you were carrying illegally. Parking your car and disarming in the parking lot, then proceeding inside could technically be in violation (there is conflict in the law, as stated above), but I don't see how any judge or jury could reasonably postulate that you were in violation of the intent of the law, and your actions would in fact display you were making every effort to stay within the law. Same for picking someone up or incidentally walking across a parking lot. I suppose a determined DA could push for some sort of charge in this area, but I don't see someone actually getting convicted of such a thing, as it's unreasonable. The only way I'd see it sticking is during the commission of another crime, and that would more likely stick as some sort of UCW charge or posession of a weapon during the commission of a crime (not sure specifically what, without taking a long look at the penal code).

I'm not aware of anyone being charged with UCW for being in a parking lot or the like, so I doubt it has ever happened. Taken to an extreme, this theoretical charge could apply if you were pulled over for a traffic stop and ended up pulling over in a parking lot of a 51% location. Again, I don't see it ever happening.

As far as the patio, I agree with others above. If they can legally serve the alcohol where you are sitting, it's considered part of the premises by TABC and therefore off limits. It's not a "loophole" I would ever challenge anyone to explore.