Going to a Summer Camp...

[ClarkLZeuss]

...or rather a "retreat center" since it's not summertime yet. You know, one of those places with cabins, canoes, horses, whatnot. I asked our group coordinator if I would be allowed to shoot my 9mm on their property (I figured they have a range), so she inquired of the camp director. The response I got back was as follows:

I just called the camp to find out, but they do not allow any firearms on their camp property that is not theirs. :( They have a .22 range that they have available depending on how big groups are. But we have to use their equipment.

OK, so I'm fine with not being able to shoot on their range. I understand the possible liability issues. However, does this mean that even with a CHL, I am not allowed to have my weapon locked up in my car on their land?

[WEC]

Would this constitute "notice?"

[Bunkins]

Would this constitute "notice?"

That would be enough notice for me...


You could always call back and ask if this also applies to CHL holders. Pretty obvious they wont let you shoot, but they might let you carry... Never hurts to ask..

[srothstein]

This would not constitute legal notice under 30.06 if you got it in an email. Written notice must be in the specific wording. If your quote is what she said on the phone, it would constitute notice. The law requires the notice to be from someone acting with the apparent authority of the owner. The group director is your liaison to the camp and asked the person who would have the authority. You got the answer that they do not allow firearms on the property.

But, if you leave the weapon locked in the car, you are not carrying under the authority of your CHL and 30.06 would not apply. So, my opinion (with all the usual caveats) is that you would be okay leaving the gun locked in the car.

[will381796]

Lesson: it's better to carry rather than ask permission, because odds are good you're not going to get the answer you want, caused them to give you verbal noticed, and you just prevented yourself from protecting yourself.

[ClarkLZeuss]

This would not constitute legal notice under 30.06 if you got it in an email. Written notice must be in the specific wording. If your quote is what she said on the phone, it would constitute notice.

Thanks for the reply, but I'm still a little confused by this. You're saying that even though the camp director did not give us written notice with the 30.06 wording, a verbal notice ("no guns") is just as legally binding?

But, if you leave the weapon locked in the car, you are not carrying under the authority of your CHL and 30.06 would not apply.

Yeah, this is what I thought too, and is probably what I will do, just keep it in my lockbox under my seat and not mention it again to anyone. Because I'm not interested in carrying it around on their property anyway, just having it for the 3 hour drive to/from their camp. Just hope there isn't a 30.06 sign at the camp entrance that would cover the parking lot!

[Keith B]

Thanks for the reply, but I'm still a little confused by this. You're saying that even though the camp director did not give us written notice with the 30.06 wording, a verbal notice ("no guns") is just as legally binding?

That is correct. 30.06 is valid if posted per the guidelines OR if any verbal notice is given.

[srothstein]

This would not constitute legal notice under 30.06 if you got it in an email. Written notice must be in the specific wording. If your quote is what she said on the phone, it would constitute notice.

Thanks for the reply, but I'm still a little confused by this. You're saying that even though the camp director did not give us written notice with the 30.06 wording, a verbal notice ("no guns") is just as legally binding?

Yes, you do understand what I was saying. The notice must be given by someone with authority, which was the case here. If the notice is written in any form (sign, email, employee handbook, etc), then it must have the wording specified to be legally binding. Note that the size requirement is only for signs, but if they give you a book with policies it still has to have the right wording.

And if the notice is oral, it can be anything. I usually try to use the word oral instead of verbal. While most of us think of verbal as spoken, technically it means anything with words, including signs. Oral means spoken and thereofre is a more clear choice for this situation.

[ClarkLZeuss]

Yes, you do understand what I was saying. The notice must be given by someone with authority, which was the case here. If the notice is written in any form (sign, email, employee handbook, etc), then it must have the wording specified to be legally binding. Note that the size requirement is only for signs, but if they give you a book with policies it still has to have the right wording.

And if the notice is oral, it can be anything. I usually try to use the word oral instead of verbal. While most of us think of verbal as spoken, technically it means anything with words, including signs. Oral means spoken and thereofre is a more clear choice for this situation.

Awesome. Thanks, again, for the feedback, Steve. That made it crystal clear. Now, let me throw you a curveball. Let's say you, as a CHL, approach a business with just the "gunbusters" sign out front. This is not legally binding, so you proceed to enter regardless...but then the owner (who happens to be standing at the door) looks at you and says "No guns allowed." What would you do?

[03Lightningrocks]

Awesome. Thanks, again, for the feedback, Steve. That made it crystal clear. Now, let me throw you a curveball. Let's say you, as a CHL, approach a business with just the "gunbusters" sign out front. This is not legally binding, so you proceed to enter regardless...but then the owner (who happens to be standing at the door) looks at you and says "No guns allowed." What would you do?

I would ask him how he outed me!

[Bart]

Let's say you, as a CHL, approach a business with just the "gunbusters" sign out front. This is not legally binding, so you proceed to enter regardless...but then the owner (who happens to be standing at the door) looks at you and says "No guns allowed." What would you do?

I would honor his request and spend my money somewhere else.