Economy: Emergent problems for CHL holders

[jeeperbryan]

So what if they make you. It's almost no different than a normal citizen making you. They may try to detain you or hassle you but what's the worst that'll happen? They shine their flashlight in your eyes? They barracade the door? All they'll do is call the police. The police will come and you'll walk out. No big deal just an inconvenience.

Improperly trainied or ignorant security guards are the least of our problems. The bigger issue is rising crime and home invasions. This is increasing emergent problem from the economy.

[NcongruNt]

As far as showing a receipt, I don't play that game. What I have purchased is my property. They have no right to inspect it.

Then don't go to Fry's. They inspect everything against the receipt.

I go to Fry's somewhat regularly. I tell them "no thanks" every time and have never had a hassle. Occasionally, I get a door person that finds it entertaining.

The people at Fry's seem to be quite aware that the check is voluntary.

[rm9792]

As far as showing a receipt, I don't play that game. What I have purchased is my property. They have no right to inspect it.

Then don't go to Fry's. They inspect everything against the receipt.

No they dont, I walk right past with a polite "no you dont need to see my receipt" and have never been challenged. Both at Clear lake and 59 S stores.

[FlynJay]

No they dont, I walk right past with a polite "no you dont need to see my receipt" and have never been challenged. Both at Clear lake and 59 S stores.

Ah, the old Jedi mind trick.
But I agree, having to show the receipt for the stuff that you just purchased is disrespectful to the customers. Most people stealing stuff aren't going to have it in the bag anyway.

[casingpoint]

The big deal with Wal Mart is to prevent cashiers working in concert with customers who walk unpaid merchandise out the door. If that sounds weak, talk to a Wal Mart manager. It's one of the biggest problems Wal Mart has.

Wal Mart has done away with the self checkout registers where I live. With them, the thieves didn't need any inside help.

[jeeperbryan]

Stores will hire more security to help combat shoplifting. It is possible that one of these individuals would notice a bulge or a print and challenge a CHL holder. This type of situation could easily escalate with poorly trained or inexperienced "security."

I thought about this some more and here's my thought....If a security guard notices a bulge or print on you then you've failed to conceal. The situation is your own fault.

[will381796]

Stores will hire more security to help combat shoplifting. It is possible that one of these individuals would notice a bulge or a print and challenge a CHL holder. This type of situation could easily escalate with poorly trained or inexperienced "security."

I thought about this some more and here's my thought....If a security guard notices a bulge or print on you then you've failed to conceal. The situation is your own fault.

Printing != failure to conceal. There's no law against printing so long as a reasonable individual (non-LEO) can not identify that it's a handgun. The scenario that the OP made was that security simply saw a bulge in your pockets, not that they saw an outline of a gun in your pocket.

[Wildscar]

Best Buy Calls You An "*******" For Not Showing Your Receipt

Thanks for the heads up but you might want to check the language. And also give a warning if there is such language contained in the link.

Also I wonder who would be at fault when someone tried to physically detain a CHL holder that thinks someone is trying to take their weapon and take the appropriate actions to keep that from happening. I know I am not going to allow some one to touch me and if it is around the weapon area you can bet there will be agressive actions taken.

[hheremtp]

[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up but you might want to check the language. And also give a warning if there is such language contained in the link.

Also I wonder who would be at fault when someone tried to physically detain a CHL holder that thinks someone is trying to take their weapon and take the appropriate actions to keep that from happening. I know I am not going to allow some one to touch me and if it is around the weapon area you can bet there will be agressive actions taken.[/quote]


Wildscar, that is a good question, if you have two or three people surrounding you and one of them tride to take that "bulge" that you had on the side of you (thinking it was stolen goods), would you take the ride if you drew down on them in an attempt to protect yourself?

[Fangs]

When does this become theft with you legally allowed to use threat of deadly force? Just thinking in the case of the sugar bags being yanked from the guy's bags. Now I doubt you could justify actual use of deadly force, unless the guy threatening to kick your butt is an real threat, but pulling would sure get a reaction. Unfortunately I don't doubt that it'll result in a trip to the pokey.

[jeeperbryan]

Stores will hire more security to help combat shoplifting. It is possible that one of these individuals would notice a bulge or a print and challenge a CHL holder. This type of situation could easily escalate with poorly trained or inexperienced "security."

I thought about this some more and here's my thought....If a security guard notices a bulge or print on you then you've failed to conceal. The situation is your own fault.

Printing != failure to conceal. There's no law against printing so long as a reasonable individual (non-LEO) can not identify that it's a handgun. The scenario that the OP made was that security simply saw a bulge in your pockets, not that they saw an outline of a gun in your pocket.

Your point is well taken and understood. However I wasn't referring to the law or the DPS definition of concealment. Common sense is the key thing here. I may be well within my rights to walk into a store with my AR15 under my jacket but why would I even try at risk of being identified as a potential thief.

Regardless of the DPS's definition of concealment, "conceal" is synomous to "hide". If you have a large bulge or are printing you're not doing a great job of "hiding" your weapon and it's your own fault if you get approached.

[Wildscar]

Thanks for the heads up but you might want to check the language. And also give a warning if there is such language contained in the link.

Also I wonder who would be at fault when someone tried to physically detain a CHL holder that thinks someone is trying to take their weapon and take the appropriate actions to keep that from happening. I know I am not going to allow some one to touch me and if it is around the weapon area you can bet there will be agressive actions taken.[/quote]


Wildscar, that is a good question, if you have two or three people surrounding you and one of them tride to take that "bulge" that you had on the side of you (thinking it was stolen goods), would you take the ride if you drew down on them in an attempt to protect yourself?[/quote]

I was talking more of just slapping the hand and pushing the person away that attemped to physcially contact me. What they might view as an agressive action is a defensive action on your part to retain your weapon. This has nothing to do with printing or going after a buldge but just poor placement of ones hands. Since every encounter is diffrent its hard to say exactally what one would do but I would atleast try to make my next move to call 911 and get an officer on scene becasue he is going to be the only one to understand why you did what you was defensive and not offensive.

[PappaGun]

It's funny to me that this thread has posted now.

I had a very similar thing happen to me yesterday. I'm not carrying yet cuz I haven't received my plastic, however....
I walked out of my local Tom Thumb after purchasing a bag of sugar that the wife forgot on her previous day's trip.
I went through the self check out.

I didn't throw it in a bag cuz it was only one one item. On my way out the door, the rent a cop says, "They're calling you inside".
I think about it for a second and say "I've got everything I need. I don't need to go back inside". He asks if I have a receipt (Not really even knowing what's up, but assuming they're asking me back in because I stole it).

I again say, "No thanks" and go to my car. As I'm pulling out I see him in my mirror running toward my car and I think about just hitting the gas, but curiosity and just plain anger are getting the better of me at this point. I role down my window and he hands me the 5 dollars I left inside in the change slot.

Thank you sir, have a nice day.

[jeeperbryan]

It's funny to me that this thread has posted now.

I had a very similar thing happen to me yesterday. I'm not carrying yet cuz I haven't received my plastic, however....
I walked out of my local Tom Thumb after purchasing a bag of sugar that the wife forgot on her previous day's trip.
I went through the self check out.

I didn't throw it in a bag cuz it was only one one item. On my way out the door, the rent a cop says, "They're calling you inside".
I think about it for a second and say "I've got everything I need. I don't need to go back inside". He asks if I have a receipt (Not really even knowing what's up, but assuming they're asking me back in because I stole it).

I again say, "No thanks" and go to my car. As I'm pulling out I see him in my mirror running toward my car and I think about just hitting the gas, but curiosity and just plain anger are getting the better of me at this point. I role down my window and he hands me the 5 dollars I left inside in the change slot.

Thank you sir, have a nice day.

So you tried to carry a bag of sugar IWB and created a suspicious buldge? That's so unsanitary.

[Captain Matt]

Stores will hire more security to help combat shoplifting. It is possible that one of these individuals would notice a bulge or a print and challenge a CHL holder. This type of situation could easily escalate with poorly trained or inexperienced "security."

Thanks for the reminder. Money from a settlement can go a long way in these hard economic times.