Umm what the heck Texas?

[74novaman]

It's in Dallas. Link to the story:
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/na ... 28_2518563

[timdsmith72]

This neighborhood is in Frisco. They did a segment on the news the other night and said the HOA is calling these decals "advertisements". They also showed a bunch of cars with Obama stickers, etc... and said ok if the Marine decals are advertisements then these are too. They brought up the point that by that definition of advertisement then virtually every car in the lot is in violation. They also caught one of the HOA board members and asked him about it. He "claimed" to know nothing about it and would "investigate".

[Oldgringo]

tfrazier wrote:

Why on earth does anyone live in an HOA controlled neighborhood?

Like all things, an HOA can be abusive; however, I wish I had an HOA or somebody to do something about the white trash next door to me.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

This disgust me. I am AD Army and I take the flag seriously. I fly one at my home everyday. I unfortunately live in a HOA and I absolutely hate it. I am not sure if any of you are familiar with the Flag Code. It states that when a flag is torn or an unfit emblem for display it should be removed and destroyed in a honorable way. The office in our neighborhood flys a flag 24/7 to be 'patriotic'. However the flag is torn at the ends and looks horrible. 2 weeks ago I put a copy of the Flag Code outside their office and highlighted the sections they are violating and asked them to correct the problem. What have they done about it? Nothing Also, on Memorial Day. They did not bother to lower the flag to half staff at all. These people make me sick. Here are some links for those of you that fly the flag and those of you who would like to. Please ensure that you fly our flag with honor and respect. I also encourage you to try to correct anyone, business or private, that are violating the Flag Code. Call them, talk to them, send a letter/copy of the Flag Code.

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Purplehood]

This disgust me. I am AD Army and I take the flag seriously. I fly one at my home everyday. I unfortunately live in a HOA and I absolutely hate it. I am not sure if any of you are familiar with the Flag Code. It states that when a flag is torn or an unfit emblem for display it should be removed and destroyed in a honorable way. The office in our neighborhood flys a flag 24/7 to be 'patriotic'. However the flag is torn at the ends and looks horrible. 2 weeks ago I put a copy of the Flag Code outside their office and highlighted the sections they are violating and asked them to correct the problem. What have they done about it? Nothing Also, on Memorial Day. They did not bother to lower the flag to half staff at all. These people make me sick. Here are some links for those of you that fly the flag and those of you who would like to. Please ensure that you fly our flag with honor and respect. I also encourage you to try to correct anyone, business or private, that are violating the Flag Code. Call them, talk to them, send a letter/copy of the Flag Code.

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Take down the offending flag and replace it.

[TrueFlog]

Am I the only one bothered by that the flag was placed on the ground?! That's a blatant violation of the Flag Code and is very disrespectful to our nation. Setting aside the issue of whether it should have been taken down to begin with, there's no excuse for tossing it aside and letting it fall where it may. They still should've had the decency to fold up the flag and place it somewhere safe until the woman could come take it home.

XtremeDuty.45, I'm with you on the tattered-and-torn flags. Last year in late June, I was driving past a Bank of America branch and noticed their flag was well beyond worn out. I called them the next day, reminded them that July 4 was coming up, and asked them to retire the worn flag and either replace it or not fly it at all. A few weeks later I happened by the same branch, and there was a brand new flag a-flyin'. But don't even get me started on the flags some people stick in their car windows. They claim to be patriotic, but then disrespect the flag. They don't take it down at night or when it rains, they subject it to 70MPH winds (that is, highway speeds), they don't retire it when it's faded...

[HKUSP45C]

OK, I'll be the one dissenting voice in this here cadre of patriotism. You (that means each and everyone one of you fine people here) have no First Amendment rights when you're on someone's property. It's the same tired argument we have about employers telling their workforce that they can't bring weapons to work and leave them in their cars on the company parking lot.

If'n you don't like the rules that your employer has put in place, even arbitrarily, on the fly, you are welcome to "pursue happiness" with someone more akin to your way of thinking.

As distasteful as I find the whole situation (and I really do) an employer (or their agent) can set any darn fool policy they want (as long as it doesn't break the statutorily codified rules of discrimination against protected classes) and you have every right to quit in protest. I'm as red blooded as any one here but, the right to control behavior on one's property and particularly the behavior of people who represent your business is as just a cause as the ability to fly a flag, even an American flag.

Most of you would probably throw me out of your house if I didn't submit to your authority while under your roof. Why is this any different? Because it's an American flag? There would be no outrage (or precious little of it) if she were flying the flag of a country she immigrated from and was told to lower it. Let's not be hypocritical.

Property rights are just as important as the rest of them. When you're on someone else's property you certainly "sign away" many of the rights you would normally enjoy in your home or on public land, particularly if you're inclined to be allowed to continue coming back, as in the case of the property that belongs to someone willing to pay you to do a particular job on a regular basis.

All that said, I still think the supervisor is a dim-witted troll with little regard for the fact that the symbol she ordered taken down was the banner under which men and women bled and died to give her the right to behave in her small minded and obtuse manner.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

Purplehood: I cannot just take it down and replace it as I do not own it. I would get charged with tresspassing and destruction of property.

TrueFlog: Per Flag Code so long as you have an all weather flag you can fly it in any weather. You can also fly them at night as long as they are properly illuminated.

[nitrogen]

This is why I purposefully live 30 miles from where I work, in the first good neighborhood I could find without an HOA.
We rented a house in Wylie with an HOA that was crazy. They had nothing to say about my neighbors with 8 cars in the yard, and grass, but would mail us nastygrams every time they felt we didnt cut the grass soon enough. (Which te landlord was supposed to handle, but we were responsible for HOA fines...)

[tfrazier]

OK, I'll be the one dissenting voice in this here cadre of patriotism. You (that means each and everyone one of you fine people here) have no First Amendment rights when you're on someone's property. It's the same tired argument we have about employers telling their workforce that they can't bring weapons to work and leave them in their cars on the company parking lot...

Weapons locked in personal vehicles on a company parking lot is a totally different issue from flag protocol, because it infringes on my right to carry to and from work. Kind of like the neighbor upstream from your ranch building a dam and cutting off water to your herd.

Meanwhile, the guys here complaining about the treatment of the flag have every right to do so, just like those businesses and individuals have every right to mutilate and display those flags that they own any way they see fit.

And we all have the right to point out that they are idiots and should have more respect for this country and its symbols. Plus we have the right to demonstrate in front of their business, boycott their goods and services, etc.

Just because someone has a "right" doesn't mean it's socially proper or acceptable for them to abuse it.

EDITED to add:
Furthermore, the love it or leave it argument for your employer doesn't fly for me. I was the founder of a labor union when I was a 22 year old police officer because I refused to accept that the chief's word was law when he was out of control with unpaid suspensions for every citizen complaint against an officer without investigation. I out-lasted him by six years.

In my subsequent career, I've often disagreed with corporate policy, and once even went all the way to the top of my division in a 50,000+ employee company to successfully get a policy changed.

If you have a good case and know how to present it intelligently, or just flat out have both right and might on your side, there's no reason to be a wimp and go find another job. That attitude is what makes certain employers think they can treat their employees like dirt and get away with it. If I'm right and they're wrong, I'll make them fire me before I wave a white flag.

[HKUSP45C]

Furthermore, the love it or leave it argument for your employer doesn't fly for me. I was the founder of a labor union when I was a 22 year old police officer because I refused to accept that the chief's word was law when he was out of control with unpaid suspensions for every citizen complaint against an officer without investigation. I out-lasted him by six years.

In my subsequent career, I've often disagreed with corporate policy, and once even went all the way to the top of my division in a 50,000+ employee company to successfully get a policy changed.

If you have a good case and know how to present it intelligently, or just flat out have both right and might on your side, there's no reason to be a wimp and go find another job. That attitude is what makes certain employers think they can treat their employees like dirt and get away with it. If I'm right and they're wrong, I'll make them fire me before I wave a white flag.

Guns in cars aside ...

This is a perfectly acceptable and (IMHO) admirable attitude as well. The "love it or leave it" attitude I chose to illustrate was just one of several ways of going about your "pursuit of happiness." Fighting back for what's right is not only a viable choice but the most patriotic of the two as well. You must simply be willing to accept the consequences of your actions, even if they include being reprimanded for insubordination or terminated for not "being a team player."

[tfrazier]

And I did get terminated for not being a team player. Twice. I didn't accept the consequences and my attorney made them hire me back...twice. But then I also had the law on my side, both literally in the courtroom sense and figuratively in that I had 32 brothers in blue supporting me.

But I'm glad those days are over...too much stress to make that a very reasonable pursuit of happiness. It was more a pursuit of principle than anything else.

And back on topic, I wonder how long it will be before the lady who originally hung that flag up in her office suffers some type of retaliation from her employer for going to the press? Lots of RIFs happening these days, and they are a commonly used method for getting rid of "problem employees".

[TxRVer]

Something that bothers me, besides the obvious, is the statement that the disagreement was over the size of the flag and not the symbolism. I don't get it. How can the flags size be a problem. If it was a huge outdoor flag snapping loudly in the wind I could see that being a problem, but not a flag indoors, no matter how big. Am I missing something or were they just making excuses after making an idiotic decision?

[Locke]

Size is a distraction here. The flag was 3x5. Unless they had a specific policy against the size of decorations it’s a non-issue. I think one person didn't like the flag. She went to their boss and complained. The boss decided to just go along with it cause who really wants to talk to HR about employees that are offended. Lots of paperwork and meeting potential. Unfortunately for them the owner of the flag was a feisty lady who was having none of it and turned it into a PR nightmare for them and their corporate office had to get involved. Lots of meetings and paperwork after all. I'm sure their president was not thrilled about staring on you tube.

[DoubleJ]

And back on topic, I wonder how long it will be before the lady who originally hung that flag up in her office suffers some type of retaliation from her employer for going to the press? Lots of RIFs happening these days, and they are a commonly used method for getting rid of "problem employees".

I's thought of that, as well. the squeaky wheel don't always get oil, sometimes it gets replaced!

I'm surprised the "co-worker" didn't have a flag-pole where the sun don't shine....
"Ya know, it's hard to see the flag from this angle..."