Angry letters work! Updated

[Chip]

Actually, the letter doesn't matter once you get past 90 days. The letter only allows them to extend it TO 90 days.

I read it differently. 411.177 says that the dept. must do one of three things at the end of 60 days:
- Issue the license,
- Send a notification that the application was denied,
- Send a notification that the department can't meet 60 day requirement and provide an estimated time to completion.

You're denied at day 90 if they do none of the above. I don't see anything that says they can only extend it to 90 days by sending a letter, though, I think that one can be pretty open-ended all the way up to 180 days total.

From what I can tell, if they send you a letter on day 87 telling you "we're waiting on a Harris County background check, it will take another three months" then they've slammed shut the option for a hearing. You're right, you can't request one before the 90 day mark. My point is that if DPS starts getting enough individual hearing requests, it's a simple procedural change for them to start sending out the required "we're not going to meet the 60 day limit" letters. That would take the wind out of everyone's sails.

[dicion]

This has been argued before, in other threads, with even charles supporting what I stated above, however... I'll spin it one more time...

GC 5411.177. ISSUANCE OR DENIAL OF LICENSE.
(b) The department shall, not later than the 60th day after the date
of the receipt by the director's designee of the completed application
materials:
(1) issue the license;
(2) notify the applicant in writing that the application was denied:
(A) on the grounds that the applicant failed to qualify under the
criteria listed in Section 411.172;
(B) based on the affidavit of the director's designee submitted
to the department under Section 411.176(b); or
(C) based on the affidavit of the qualified handgun instructor
submitted to the department under Section 411.189(c); or
(3) notify the applicant in writing that the department is unable to
make a determination regarding the issuance or denial of a license to
the applicant within the 60-day period prescribed by this subsection
and include in that notification an explanation of the reason for the
inability and an estimation of the amount of time the department will
need to make the determination.
(c) Failure of the department to issue or deny a license for a period
of more than 30 days after the department is required to act under
Subsection (b) constitutes denial

Failure of the DPS to ISSUE or DENY at day 90 is a denial. 3(b) says NOTHING about the letter for the day 90 requirement, plain and simple.
They can send 10,000 letters, but if they do not issue or deny by day 90, you have been denied.

The "after the department is required to act under Subsection (b)" is just used as a reference to the proceeding 60 days. It doesn't say "If the department doesn't act at all"

So whether the department acts or not, it is/was still required to act at day 60.
30 Days after it is required to act, it must issue or deny, or you are implicitly denied, whether it has acted (by sending a letter) or not.

The 180 day check is ONLY ALLOWED if they FIND something that may disqualify you, and they need more information.
It doesn't mean they can just 'keep looking' for 180 days. If they don't find something by the time they are required to issue, tough luck. Issue.

In my opinion, this still does not allow them to go past the 90 day mark, which they still must issue or deny at, but rather, allows them to keep investigating PAST the issue of the license, and if they find anything, then suspend or revoke it.

GC 411 .I 76. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS. (a) On
receipt of the application materials by the department at its Austin
headquarters, the department shall conduct the appropriate criminal
history record check of the applicant through its computerized criminal
history system. Not later than the 30th day after the date the department
receives the application materials, the department shall forward
the materials to the director's designee in the geographical area of the
applicant's residence so that the designee may conduct the investigation
described by Subsection (b).
(b) The director's designee as needed shall conduct an additional
criminal history record check of the applicant and an investigation of
the applicant's local official records to verify the accuracy of the application
materials. The scope of the record check and the investigation
are at the sole discretion of the department, except that the director's
designee shall complete the record check and investigation not later
than the 60th day after the date the department receives the application
materials. The department shall send a fingerprint card to the
Federal Bureau of Investigation for a national criminal history check of
the applicant. On completion of the investigation, the director's
designee shall return all materials and the result of the investigation to
the appropriate division of the department at its Austin headquarters.
The directoh designee may submit to the appropriate division of the
department, at the department's Austin headquarters, along with the
application materials a written recommendation for disapproval of the
application, accompanied by an affidavit stating personal knowledge or
naming persons with personal knowledge of a ground for denial under
Section 411.172. The director's designee in the appropriate geographical
area may also submit the application and the recommendation that
the license be issued. On receipt at the department's Austin headquarters
of the application materials and the result of the investigation by
the director's designee, the department shall conduct any furUler
record check or investigation the department determines is necessary
if a question exists with respect to the accuracy of the application
materials or the eligibility of the applicant, except that the department
shall complete the record check and investigation not later than the
180th day after the date the deparbnent receives the application mate- '
rials from the applicant.

This is the way some laws work, contradicting eachother, or even setting different timelines compared to eachother.

Let me put it this way. You're speeding down the road. On the same pole, there's a 55mph speed limit sign, and a 65mph speed limit sign.
Which do you think you'd need to do to not get pulled over for speeding?
Same thing here. One section says they have 180 days, one says they have 90. Theyre both Law. Bypassing 90 Breaks one law, Bypassing 180 simply breaks 2 laws. Issuing before 90 breaks none.

[rob845]

Well I am just past 60 days and I have not seen anything yet maybe I should get my letter ready to be sent after they pass the 90 mark....

[Purplehood]

Folks need to deluge the DPS with form letters stating the law, and ensure that they are sent out at the appropriate dates. Local major papers should also get copied.

[bk2506]

Not sure how many folks have had "problem letters" sent by DPS during the BC, but I'm fighting one now...

2009-04-04 Attended 10 hour classroom instruction, completed written exam
2009-04-06 Completed fingerprinting, completed field proficiency exam
2009-04-07 Mailed application to DPS via USPS w/ delivery confirmation
2009-04-09 Delivery confirmed at DPS by USPS
2009-04-17 Check cashed by DPS
2009-05-30 Received PIN via USPS for checking status online
2009-06-26 Received letter from DPS stating application MAY be denied due to an error when wide background check performed and referenced "attached documentation" which was really just a Post-It note stating I had deliquent property taxes in Dallas County. Apparently, there was another person in 1987 who failed to pay a $20.00 property tax bill on an undeveloped plot of land and who happened to have the same First, MI, Last name as me. When I contacted DPS to explain I was mistaken for someone else, they balked and advised me to have Dallas County issue a "Mistaken Identity" report clearing my name. I then retorted I was 14 years old when the property taxes were due, and they finally agreed to "continue processing my application and would call me if they needed any more information".
2009-07-13 Still no word on status of CHL app with DPS. Website says same "processing application" status as the past several weeks. Called DPS who confirmed problem still existed with my BC. Called both Dallas County Tax Assessor and Dallas County Clerks Office and neither knew anything about a "Mistaken Identity" report. They both acknowledged their respective offices did not keep SSN or TXDL information on file in the 80's for property records, so there would be absolutely no way DPS could have queried using those fields during the BC.
2009-07-15 Mailed letter to DPS requesting they ignore their findings on the deliquent property tax based on two grounds: 1) BC query was too broad and did not use personally identifiable information, 2) I was 14 at the time the taxes became deliquent, which would have been impossible for me to legally own property in Texas. Also, I told them I did a quick people search on the Internet and found 20 different people with my same first name, middle initial, and last name in Texas. I asked them to prove their results excluded all other 19 people with my same name. Also requested they review their BC procedures and controls as this type of loose querying results in what I considered to be a substandard BC.