Bowling Alley

[jbirds1210]

The bowling alley in Texas City is posted with a 51% sign at the main doors. There is a bar in the bowling alley, though the tables are inside of a different room. There is a service window that opens to the public. I find it very hard to believe that this very LARGE business makes a majority of the money off of booze!

Are we restricted in the actual bar or is it actually off limits throughout the entire building? There is no 30.06 signs posted.
Thanks,
Jason

[Cosmo 9]

Call it in and see if the sign stays up

[TxBlonde]

I would call also. That would be a big Tax and Fine issue. I think that they are try to keep CHL holders out, without haveing to put up one of those big 30.06 signs because that would take up advertising space.

[Mithras61]

Maybe they're really 51% (just think of the stuff you'd have to clean off your bowling shoes if they are, though ).

But I suspect TxBlonde is right and they want to be gun unfriendly without appearing gun unfriendly...

Think of calling as a public service. If they misplaced the sign, they don't want to be fined for it. If not, then the signage needs to come down and they can show their TRUE colors.

[AG-EE]

Who do you call, TABC?

I noticed that the bolling alley in Tyler is also posted 51% at the front door, and thier bar is like the one described above.

[Mithras61]

Who do you call, TABC?

I noticed that the bolling alley in Tyler is also posted 51% at the front door, and thier bar is like the one described above.

I'd start here: http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforce/CompInv.htm

[jbirds1210]

Ok-I spoke with agent Chadham from TABC. He was polite and courteous throughout the entire coversation, which is about the only positive thing I can say about it.

He told me that in order for someone to be able to leave the bar area and trasport their alcoholic beverage to the lanes, they would have to be covered under a specific permit that likely requires a 51% sign. He also mentioned that the sign could be proper because the sales from the bar compared to money made from actual bowling activities might be considered seperate. The example he used is that they likely do make 51% of their sales from the bar VS. the snack bar.

I politely asked him how that was different than leaving the bar of a restaurant and going to your table. He politely told me that he had no argument to offer, but that was the policy

I am going to utilize their formal complaint process and see what comes of it. I will keep everyone posted. Thank you.
Jason

[txinvestigator]

Ok-I spoke with agent Chadham from TABC. He was polite and courteous throughout the entire coversation, which is about the only positive thing I can say about it.

He told me that in order for someone to be able to leave the bar area and trasport their alcoholic beverage to the lanes, they would have to be covered under a specific permit that likely requires a 51% sign. He also mentioned that the sign could be proper because the sales from the bar compared to money made from actual bowling activities might be considered seperate. The example he used is that they likely do make 51% of their sales from the bar VS. the snack bar.

I politely asked him how that was different than leaving the bar of a restaurant and going to your table. He politely told me that he had no argument to offer, but that was the policy

I am going to utilize their formal complaint process and see what comes of it. I will keep everyone posted. Thank you.
Jason

I used to know the ABC laws soooo much better, but the agent's comments DO make sense. In an off-premise license you cannot drink on the premise. So the bar cannot have an off-premise license, else you could not sit at the bar and drink.

With an on-premise license you cannot leave with alcohol.

There are other types of licenses, and in certain cases the shared seating areas are part of the licensees premises under ABC laws.

So it is possible the bowling alley falls under 51%.

[KBCraig]

He told me that in order for someone to be able to leave the bar area and trasport their alcoholic beverage to the lanes, they would have to be covered under a specific permit that likely requires a 51% sign. He also mentioned that the sign could be proper because the sales from the bar compared to money made from actual bowling activities might be considered seperate. The example he used is that they likely do make 51% of their sales from the bar VS. the snack bar.

I've wondered the same thing about entertainment venues. The beer vendors there make all their money from beer. If they're a separate business, rather than part of the venue's overall revenue plan, then they become 51% licensees.

I politely asked him how that was different than leaving the bar of a restaurant and going to your table. He politely told me that he had no argument to offer, but that was the policy

Let me help him out: a restaurant that has a "bar area" is not a bar. It's still a restaurant. If the bar were a separate TABC licensee, and it was 51%+ then you couldn't take your drink from the bar to the restaurant.

Every TABC licensee has "defined premises" on file. For on-site consumption, those boundaries define where customers may possess alcohol. You can't buy open drinks inside, then carry them out to go, nor to drink in the parking lot, etc. Unless, that is, the parking lot, etc., are part of their licensed premises. Many restaurants have outside dining areas included as part of their defined premises.

But, you can't leave the "licensed premises" with a drink. So if the bowling alley bar is a separate business with 51%+ revenue from alcohol, then everywhere that you're permitted to take a drink within the bowling alley is also part of the 51% zone.

The solution would be to combine all the revenue, if that would lower the alcohol revenue below 51% of the total.

Kevin

[KBCraig]

Forgot to add an example.

The Red Lobster in Texarkana moved from the Arkansas side, to a new location in Texas. They've got a small outside dining patio, which is visible from the parking lot, but separated by a wrought iron railing.

They had to stop allowing alcohol in that outside dining area, because the Texarkana, Texas PD started citing patrons for drinking in public.

Seems the outside patio was not part of their "defined premises".

Kevin

[jbirds1210]

Thank you guys/gals for your input. Your information in combination with talking to the agent, I now have a better understanding of how the premise laws are set in regard to 51% laws.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with it!

KB-that is crazy about sitting in the outside dining area....one of those situations where ya get so mad tears start running down your face!

I would have had a very very hard time swallowing that ticket! Thanks again.
Jason