State Capitol security update, Austin Statesman 1-29-10

[KD5NRH]

One week after a man opened fire with a pistol outside the Texas Capitol's south entrance, legislative leaders took a possible first step toward beefing up security at the storied landmark with checkpoints and more surveillance cameras.

One of the most memorable comments I've seen from visitors to our Capitol Building is that it demonstrated the meaning of "Texas friendly." They were impressed that there was no line to get through any sort of security checkpoint, and that they were made to feel welcome. Anyone who's visited the White House will know exactly what I mean when I say that waiting in line to be screened before entry doesn't exactly make visitors feel welcome.

Measures like this lead to an attitude that is not appropriate for a Texas landmark. If they decide to go that route, I doubt we'll be seeing any more comments like this one (stolen from another forum):

By the way the Texas Captiol building is very camera friendly, unlike all of DC. I'd never been until last summer when by chance I was traveling through. I got to Austin after 10pm with my photo assistant/partner/son. We unpacked the camera and a tripod and found the grounds open. After getting set up to take a few exterior pictures we were approached by three DPS officers. They greeted us and were friendly. I remarked that it surprised me that we could get on the lawn, much less not be tackled and interrogated about the tripod and our interest in taking pictures.

The reply from the officers was, "This is your state capitol and you are welcome here anytime. Had you gotten here just a little earlier you could have gone inside, its open until 9". My state capitol, MINE. I like it.

[chabouk]

I'll show my License to a LEO who is at the detector, and walk around. Not a problem. FBI do it, Treasury Dept plainclothes do it, off duty LEOs do it.... not a problem.

Are we going to suggest non-chlers be subjected to inequalities when we complain when we are denied equality?
We need to let them know that the metal detectors are not an option. Does anyone think that they will do something sensible for CHLers if they put them back up? They'll do therir best to subject us to some sort of embarrasment.

If they want a "pass" they too, can get a license. It would be their choice to be unlicensed, therefore have to go through the detectors.
...
However, they are absolutly equal, in that they have an equal opportunity to become a Concealed Handgun Licensee (or licensed driver) and enjoy any benefits conferred upon them as any other CHL (or licensed driver).... if they want it.

The state capitol belongs to all residents, and they have every right to enter their house without being impeded by paperwork, or lack thereof.

[Dragonfighter]

During the Belo Debate the question was asked about metal detectors being installed at the capitol. Perry and Medina were unequivocally opposed to it, Perry going on to say that a public with CHL "is all the protection we need". Medina would like to remove restrictions to lawful carry all together. Hutchison was mercurial in her response saying that, "I would not like to see metal detectors in our state buildings but we have to consider safety and act accordingly." (IIRC).

For that matter she didn't answer anything in a straightforward manner.

[RPB]

I'll show my License to a LEO who is at the detector, and walk around. Not a problem. FBI do it, Treasury Dept plainclothes do it, off duty LEOs do it.... not a problem.

Are we going to suggest non-chlers be subjected to inequalities when we complain when we are denied equality?
We need to let them know that the metal detectors are not an option. Does anyone think that they will do something sensible for CHLers if they put them back up? They'll do therir best to subject us to some sort of embarrasment.

If they want a "pass" they too, can get a license. It would be their choice to be unlicensed, therefore have to go through the detectors.
...
However, they are absolutly equal, in that they have an equal opportunity to become a Concealed Handgun Licensee (or licensed driver) and enjoy any benefits conferred upon them as any other CHL (or licensed driver).... if they want it.

The state capitol belongs to all residents, and they have every right to enter their house without being impeded by paperwork, or lack thereof.

True, I totally agree, they can still enter, but if they want a "benefit" of bypassing metal detectors, they can get a CHL and do that. The streets are public and belong to them too, but if they want the "benefit" of operating a motor vehicle instead of a bicycle on them, they can apply for a driver's license. A car is faster, bypassing metal detectors is faster. They certainly can enter through metal detectors with no paperwork at all, just like they do through the doors they enter now..They aren't prevented from using their property in either case, but if they want a "benefit" they may apply and get it.

I'm NOT necessarily advocating that they install metal detectors, just what procedure to use if they did ... I don't want everyone unholstering and locking their weapons in lockers and checking them back out from the luggage claim area when leaving and reholstering before going outside. That would be rather hard to do while staying "concealed" as well as being more dangerous to everyone. Bypassing detectors and displaying a license is safer.... that's all I'm sayin'

[KD5NRH]

True, I totally agree, they can still enter, but if they want a "benefit" of bypassing metal detectors, they can get a CHL and do that.

As far as I can tell, metal detectors are still considered a form of search. It is worth noting that Article 1 of the Texas constitution is not referred to as the "Bill of Benefits," nor does Article 1 Section 9 state "The people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions, from particularly inconvenient seizures or searches..."

EDIT TO ADD: Can't find anything specific to TX at the moment, so I'll go with this 11th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling until I find something better: http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200216886.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Edited for relevance - each paragraph below is from a separate portion of the document.)
The plaintiffs’ first contention is that the mass, suspicionless, warrantless magnetometer searches violate their Fourth Amendment right to be free of “unreasonable searches and seizures.” We agree.
While the threat of terrorism is omnipresent, we cannot use it as the basis for restricting the scope of the Fourth Amendment’s protections in any large gathering of people.
The text of the Fourth Amendment contains no exception for large gatherings of people.

[boomerang]

As far as I can tell, metal detectors are still considered a form of search. It is worth noting that Article 1 of the Texas constitution is not referred to as the "Bill of Benefits," nor does Article 1 Section 9 state "The people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions, from particularly inconvenient seizures or searches..."

Like flying at airports? Or more like jury duty?

[KD5NRH]

As far as I can tell, metal detectors are still considered a form of search. It is worth noting that Article 1 of the Texas constitution is not referred to as the "Bill of Benefits," nor does Article 1 Section 9 state "The people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers and possessions, from particularly inconvenient seizures or searches..."

Like flying at airports? Or more like jury duty?

It has already been established that commercial air travel is not a right.

Try peaceably assembling during jury duty and see how far that one gets you.

[boomerang]

Try declining because you have 4th Amendment rights.

[RPB]

If you go to the DPS office in Burnet County to renew your driver's license, you'll go through metal detectors.

If you go to the County Tax Appraiser's office in Burnet County to renew your license plates, register a new trailer etc, you'll go through metal detectors.

But, you aren't allowed to carry a concealed handgun at those places in Burnet, you can't even take your knife in, whereas you can at the State Capitol.

So, I don't see the big problem about going through metal detectors, or presenting a license to an LEO, like at the State Fair, and still being allowed to carry at the State Capitol like you do at the State Fair.

And I doubt I'll refuse to renew my license plates or driver's license, or refuse to pay the tax assessor/collector because I object to being "searched" by the metal detectors in the building, when airports are now getting devices that see through clothes..... sheesh I boldly go through WalMart scanning devices at their doors and don't even raise a stink about it..... OMG!!! They are searching me with scanning radio frequency devices at the exit door door for those RFID tags in case I steal one ..... hide quickly .... refuse to shop there !!!!

[O6nop]

Certainly you aren't suggestiing that unlicensed drivers be treated equally to licensed drivers? unequality? huh? They aren't "equal" ...some are licensed, some aren't ... it's their choice which group they choose to be in. The one group doing the work, taking tests, paying the fees and enjoying the benefits (of driving, carrying, being armed in the presence of metal detectors) or the group of ones who don't want to go through the effort take classes, take tests, or pay the cost to obtain that benefit.

apples to oranges, not to mention putting words in my mouth. A drivers license is a permit to obtain a privilege, a CHL is a permit to sidestep the ability to exercise a right. So, using your analogy, you say choosing not to legally drive a car is the same as not being granted a right to be free from searhes. Besides, driver's licenses are as close to mandatory as you can get. To do any kind of business you need a government issued ID.

My point is that a lot of people are already conceding to allowing the metal detectors and scrambling for ways to make it better just for CHLers. If the metal detectors do come into the scene, then we can worry about the way we get in. There's 20 ideas how to get a CHL to bypass the detectors, the best way is no detectors.
That's just my opinion. And I do have a CHL

[RPB]

I'd prefer not to have detectors, and be allowed to carry when I renew my Driver's license at the D.P.S. office, and pay for my or renew my car/trailer license plates at the County Tax Assessor/Collector office etc too, but we gotta do what we gotta do, and in Burnet County, you won't have a weapon and will go through metal detectors to do those things. Or, I suppose you could try to convince the D.P.S. Trooper or Deputy Sheriff at the metal detector that you are exempt for some reason while they disarm and arrest you.

I'm not trying to make it "better" for CHLs in bypassing detectors, I'm trying to keep from some radical trying to disarm CHLs at the Capitol, which would be equally less safe for everyone there.

[boomerang]

Mail in those renewals. From your own mailbox to avoid that can of worms.

[RPB]

Mail in those renewals. From your own mailbox to avoid that can of worms.

Avoidance is a solution I suppose ...
Would do on the renewals, have in the past, except I need a new picture taken this time on TDL, and "New" trailer paperwork has to be taken in..... I also avoid going to the State Capitol. Too much traffic and I have no real interest in going again.

[KD5NRH]

I'd prefer not to have detectors, and be allowed to carry when I renew my Driver's license at the D.P.S. office, and pay for my or renew my car/trailer license plates at the County Tax Assessor/Collector office etc too,

Then why aren't you doing something about it? I'm pretty sure you can find all the documentation you need as to what PC30.06(e) means right here on this board.

[RPB]

I'd prefer not to have detectors, and be allowed to carry when I renew my Driver's license at the D.P.S. office, and pay for my or renew my car/trailer license plates at the County Tax Assessor/Collector office etc too,

Then why aren't you doing something about it? I'm pretty sure you can find all the documentation you need as to what PC30.06(e) means right here on this board.

Those offices are in the County Courthouse Annex in Burnet ..... 30.06 doesn't apply, Texas Penal Code, § 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED applies ... (a)(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;(f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony.

Can't carry in the building containing the Court and it's offices .... Court Secretary (I think THe Justice of the Peace secretary, not the County Court or Municipal Court Secretary) is the first office to the right, metal Detectors .... other County/State offices are farther down the hall. .... It's "public property" just like the Capitol. Building contains 3 Courts I think, According to § 46.03(a)(3) "unless" exception, you would need written authorization from all 3 judges to go to the DPS offce or County Tax Assesor armed. Several years ago you could just walk in the side entrance to the DPS or Tax office, those entrances are now locked and everyone goes through detectors.

See Jefferson County Courthouse link here, it's similar
http://www.co.jefferson.tx.us/sheriff/chsecurity.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1. One public entrance will be located at the main entrance of the Courthouse Annex, 1001 Pearl Street. All members of the public entering the courthouse will enter through this security area
2. All members of the public and all items carried on or about their person are subject to search and/or security screening. All items carried on or about their person will be placed in a tray for X-Ray security viewing by Courthouse Security personnel.
3. All members of the public entering the courthouse will walk through a metal detector for security screening and/or be screened by other security device.
4. Signs will be posted regarding the carrying of prohibited items such as guns and knives even if the individual possesses a concealed handgun permit.
5. Signs in different languages will be posted to inform the public of the above information as well as other security instructions and information.


All they really need to do is put a Court office, a sacrificial secretary/Court filing clerk or gopher, in the Capitol in the first office and metal detectors just before you get to her door, and bingo problem solved, you won't be able to carry there at all, and you'd get metal detectors too .... that isn't what I am hoping for .... However, I doubt I'll ever go there again anyway. I'll leave it up to someone else to teach the Constitution to the Trooper handcuffing them for a third degree felony if they put an office used by a Court in there and metal detectors like they did in the County Courthouses containing the County, State and City offices in many places where CHLs and non-CHLs are "equal" and none may carry a weapon and all must go through detectors, like some here seem to desire.

And if you forget to remove your buck knife from your belt and leave it in the car, and accidently carry it inside, you get to explain your constitutional rights to a Trooper and that you paid taxes and it's a public building you helped pay for, and you own part of it, and you pay his salary and he works for you, ... and that those metal detectors violate your right to be free from search, .... while he reads you your rights and searches you.