Burleson considers ban on public display of toy guns...

[Paladin]

http://www.cleburnetimesreview.com/home ... cturestory

"Burleson considers ban on public display of toy guns; ban not in Cleburne’s sights

By Joy E. Cressler/Staff Writer

BURLESON — Trying to head off a tragedy before it occurs, Burleson city officials are considering an ordinance banning the public display of realistic-looking toy guns.

Burleson Police Chief Tom Cowan appeared before the Burleson City Council on Aug. 24 to discuss the sale of what are called facsimile firearms, or look-a-like toy weapons.

“Since February 2005 the Burleson Police Department has observed a proliferation of facsimile firearms being used [by adults] to threaten people, to create alarm as if a real weapon were being pointed at a person, or in the possession of minor children who indiscriminately display the weapons in public creating alarm,� Cowan said.

He said facsimile firearms include replica models of real firearms that are sanctioned by the manufacturers of the real weapon and air pistols manufactured to replicate a real firearm in size, shape, color and design.

“Only through close inspection can these devices be distinguished from a real, functioning firearm,� Cowan said.

At least three times during the past year, Cowan said, Burleson officers responded to offenses in progress where they confronted individuals who possessed in-hand facsimile firearms.

“Circumstances of the incidents and actions of the subjects with the facsimile firearms caused officers to draw their duty weapons to protect themselves from imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death,� he said. “These subjects had to be ordered to drop their facsimile weapons at gunpoint by officers.�

He said each of these three incidents could have resulted in a tragic outcome.

“However, due to the training and remarkable restraint of the responding officers all subjects were taken into custody without injury,� Cowan said.

In addition to these obvious attempts of individuals to use facsimile weapons to cause alarm, Cowan said there has been a marked increase of these facsimile firearms in the possession of minor children.

“The youth do not calculate the alarm created by their brandishing the firearm in public while merely engaged in playful conduct,� he said.

There have been no cases of Crowley officers dealing with facsimile weapons in that city, Crowley detective Richard Chapman said. Nor have there been any cases in Joshua, Lt. Annabeth Robertson said.

Cleburne Police Chief Terry Powell said his officers have worked “very few to no incidents.�

Cowan said children who have air pistols shoot them in public places, creating a dilemma for police officers who respond to these events and face distinguishing facsimile firearms from real weapons.

“Officers must take precautions to protect themselves as they approach such situations,� Cowan said.

He said one collateral issue that causes significant public safety response are situations where emotionally distraught individuals or individuals with mental health problems stand on or inside private property displaying a firearm or facsimile firearm where it can be seen by the public, thus causing considerable alarm and response from the police.

“These incidents are very costly in terms of time, staffing and resources for our community,� Cowan said. “Unless these individuals actually point a firearm at someone, shoot a firearm, have warrants, or have committed other offenses they can only be handled for mental health evaluation.�

He said they are usually released within hours without having to be held accountable for their actions and the expense of the public safety response.

Cowan said the council could choose from several options, including banning the sale of realistic-looking toy guns, similar to the ordinance passed earlier this month by the Dallas public safety committee. That ordinance, if the Dallas City Council adopts it, would ban all toy guns except those painted a bright color, such as neon green or hot pink, or are made of transparent material, according to a story in the Dallas Morning News.

The ordinance would be one of the nation’s strictest ordinances regulating the sale and possession of toy guns.

Burleson City Council members can also opt to revise the city’s current ordinance, as Plano did, or adopt a new one to ban the public display of facsimile weapons. Cowan said if a ban passes, he would suggest posting the ordinance in businesses where the toy guns are sold.

“These actions would minimize the potential for injury to any citizen, particularly children,� he said.

Cowan said many parents don’t realize the city of Burleson has a problem with facsimile weapons.

“We’ve had enough close calls in Burleson,� Cowan said. “We’re going to have a tragedy sooner or later. An ordinance may not prevent it, but it may reduce the chance of it.�

“One benefit of spreading the word is perhaps parents will hesitate to buy toy guns,� Mayor Ken Shetter said.

Shetter suggested letting larger cities in the Metroplex work through some of the issues related to realistic toy guns. He said an outright ban at this point might be unfair to consumers and retailers who sell toy guns.

The matter will be discussed again at future council meetings."

[Mithras61]

“Since February 2005 the Burleson Police Department has observed a proliferation of facsimile firearms being used [by adults] to threaten people, to create alarm as if a real weapon were being pointed at a person, or in the possession of minor children who indiscriminately display the weapons in public creating alarm,” Cowan said.

He said facsimile firearms include replica models of real firearms that are sanctioned by the manufacturers of the real weapon and air pistols manufactured to replicate a real firearm in size, shape, color and design.

“Only through close inspection can these devices be distinguished from a real, functioning firearm,” Cowan said.

At least three times during the past year, Cowan said, Burleson officers responded to offenses in progress where they confronted individuals who possessed in-hand facsimile firearms.

Similar incident happened to my son recently. He & several buddies were out playing with their airsoft BB guns one afternoon (about 3:00 p.m.) & someone called the police saying that a bunch of kids was out playing with real guns.

We got almost every LEO in the area responding to that & most were pretty cool about it, but one officer decided to harass the kids about playing with guns even after he was informed that they were toys & shown the guns and magazines with BBs.

He kept threatening to arrest them all & haul them in for booking & such until one of the ladies up the street (nice quiet lady - married to a youth minister, actually) stepped in & told him to get back in his patrol car & quit giving the kids a hard time for playing with toys, or she was going to file a formal complaint.

I guess the day-glo orange ends of the barrels aren't enough in daylight to tell some people that these are toys, and that even after inspecting the "ammunition" and magazines some officers can't believe these aren't "real" guns. I wonder how closely some of these people would have to inspect a toy gun to be able to tell the difference...

Here's a photo of one of the BB guns & my SA 1911A1. Can you tell which one's which?

[nitrogen]

In the relaxed atmosphere of reading the forums, I can tell quite easily.

In the stress of a real-life situation, I'm not so sure. Especially if you take the orange tip off.
Besides, what's to stop a real-life BG from painting the tip of his real gun orange?

I might be in the minority, but I do feel that kids these days run a risk playing with guns that look "too real".

This type of activity is probably better off taking place in a back yard, or someplace out of public view.

I'm probably in the minority here, as well, but I don't even think any type of gun is an appropriate toy for a child; guns are NOT toys; they are dangerous tools. Unless you're going to "play" with the toy guns in such a way that would be safe in handling a real gun, I think it's a bad idea to instil in a child that a gun can EVER be a toy.

I'm not in favor of legislating that, though.

I do think a ban goes a bit too far, though. I think any PD that feels this is a problem should try and educate all those involved about the danger of having a realistic looking toy be mistaken for a real gun. I'd have been impressed if the cop involved, instead of yelling at the kid, took him aside and said, "hey, that thing looked pretty real and it freaked some people out, etc etc." in other words, talking to the kid.

[Mithras61]

In the relaxed atmosphere of reading the forums, I can tell quite easily.

In the stress of a real-life situation, I'm not so sure. Especially if you take the orange tip off.
Besides, what's to stop a real-life BG from painting the tip of his real gun orange?

I might be in the minority, but I do feel that kids these days run a risk playing with guns that look "too real".

This type of activity is probably better off taking place in a back yard, or someplace out of public view.

I'm probably in the minority here, as well, but I don't even think any type of gun is an appropriate toy for a child; guns are NOT toys; they are dangerous tools. Unless you're going to "play" with the toy guns in such a way that would be safe in handling a real gun, I think it's a bad idea to instil in a child that a gun can EVER be a toy.

I'm not in favor of legislating that, though.

I do think a ban goes a bit too far, though. I think any PD that feels this is a problem should try and educate all those involved about the danger of having a realistic looking toy be mistaken for a real gun. I'd have been impressed if the cop involved, instead of yelling at the kid, took him aside and said, "hey, that thing looked pretty real and it freaked some people out, etc etc." in other words, talking to the kid.

You bring up several points that I feel need to be addressed.

1) What's to stop BG from painting the tip of his gun orange? - Nothing at all. I felt it was a stupid requirement to begin with. The fact that the tip is extruded past the end of the slide, though, kind of limits that possibility somewhat as compared to some of the ones I've seen where they look like the real thing with the end of the barrel dipped in day-glo orange. One of the "problems" that this type of legislation is intended to address is the BG claim of "it was only a toy" when they get shot for waving it around in a bar (to cite a recent action). I fail to see how modifying a toy to make it look real exhibits any less intent to convinve the target they are in danger than waving a real gun around does.

2) "...I don't even think any type of gun is an appropriate toy for a child; guns are NOT toys; they are dangerous tools." - Perhaps so. I didn't let my boy have even airsoft guns until he was old enough to grasp the idea of guns & gun safety and was able to recite & explain the four rules. That, however, didn't stop him from having "guns" made out of whatever was handy, including Lego bricks, sticks and a paper towel roll center. Oddly enough, he used those same things to make a variety of other non-toys, like swords, bows & arrows, and clubs. To some extent, this desire for implements of destruction seems to be native, not taught. I'd rather it was trained and guided with non-dangerous substitutes than with the real thing, though.

3) It should be "out of public sight" - Perhaps, but isn't this the same thinking that makes us fight for CHL rights when our open carry rights were infringed? I'd rather we had open carry and the nervous nellies get over their mindless fear that my gun will "go off" by itself than have to cater to their madness and hide my gun where it's much less likely to act as a deterrent in the first place. By the same token, I'd rather have my kids where the neighbors can see them so I know what they're up to when I'm not looking.

4) "I'd have been impressed if the cop involved, instead of yelling at the kid, took him aside and said, "hey, that thing looked pretty real and it freaked some people out, etc etc." in other words, talking to the kid." - This is what I mean by "some of the LEOs were pretty cool" in that this is in fact what happened with the first several officers that showed up. The last one to arrive and to leave though was the one I wrote the most about. He got there after all of the others had left, except for one that happened to live in the neighborhood and wouldn't be warned off by the one who stayed.

5) They are VERY realistic looking - Yes, indeed they are. That's a significant part of what makes them so attractive to kids of all ages around the world. That's also why the manufacturers tend to make them easy to identify as toys. It doesn't stop the occasional shooting in error (you know the ones I'm talking about) but it does help prevent misindentification. That's part of why I took pains to ensure that my son knew the rules and could explain them before he got the airsoft gun. Believe it or not, he's actually safer with guns than most adults I see at the range.