4473 Forms

[seniorshooteress]

I hope this questions hasn't been asked and answered hundreds of times, cause if it has I haven't found it here. What do the LFF's do with all the 4473 forms and who gets all that info? Do they send these forms to some government agency, the DPS or just exactly where do they go? I would sorta like to know who is getting all my info as everything to steal your identity is on those forms.

[ScottDLS]

I hope this questions hasn't been asked and answered hundreds of times, cause if it has I haven't found it here. What do the LFF's do with all the 4473 forms and who gets all that info? Do they send these forms to some government agency, the DPS or just exactly where do they go? I would sorta like to know who is getting all my info as everything to steal your identity is on those forms.

As far as I know, there is no Texas law that addresses what Federal Firearms Licensee's do with the 4473's ("yellow forms"). This is a US government regulatory scheme authorized by the (Federal) Gun Control Act of 1968 (as amended). The Feds (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives...hereafter "ATF") require that they be maintained by the FFL as part of their business records and open for inspection by ATF. They are probably most often used by ATF for tracing guns used in a crime. If a FFL gives up his/her/its(corporation) license, the 4473's are sent to the ATF to be stored. 4473's are just a record of sale. There are a lot of ways for guns to be legally transferred, gifted, lost, loaned, etc., that preclude the 4473 being a de facto gun registration scheme.

However, there was a good scene in the cheesy '80's movie "Red Dawn" where the Soviet paratrooper, invaders of the USA, went to the gun store and demanded the 4473's under pain of death by AK-47.

[seniorshooteress]

Maybe I used the wrong number for these forms. I am asking about that white form that you have to fill out that asks, Date of birth, city/state of birth, sex, etc, etc. I haven't filled out anything yellow. Only thing that I got that was yellow was my bill of sale with the serial # and price I paid.

[carlson1]

They were yellow, then white, and now they are back to yellow.

[ScottDLS]

Maybe I used the wrong number for these forms. I am asking about that white form that you have to fill out that asks, Date of birth, city/state of birth, sex, etc, etc. I haven't filled out anything yellow. Only thing that I got that was yellow was my bill of sale with the serial # and price I paid.

4473 may have changed color, but if it's the one you fill out to buy a gun from a FFL, then what I said applies. Our .gov changes colors a lot. You're talking about buying a regular rifle/shotgun/handgun from a "gun store"/FFL dealer in Texas right? Not a NFA machine gun, silencer, short barreled rifle, etc. They have tons of other forms to fill out.

[seniorshooteress]

Yes, that is what I was refering to: what you fill out that they call in to make sure you are not a felon or looney tunes before they actually sell you the gun. Just regular handgun/rifle purchases. I haven't gotten into the assault weapons yet. I had this after thought of all the info on that form, having my life history, what if it falls into the wrong hands?

[ScottDLS]

Yes, that is what I was refering to: what you fill out that they call in to make sure you are not a felon or looney tunes before they actually sell you the gun. Just regular handgun/rifle purchases. I haven't gotten into the assault weapons yet. I had this after thought of all the info on that form, having my life history, what if it falls into the wrong hands?

Yeah that's the 4473. Basically, the dealer keeps them on file until they give up their license. Then they send them to ATF. There is a lot of information on them, although you don't have to put your SSN on them. I guess a dealer could be civilly liable if they negligently lost them and they were used to steal your identity.

[joe817]

As a post script on Scott's above, the dealer is required to keep the 4473 form for 20 years. After that they are to be properly disposed of...whatever that means.

Not to stray too far off topic, a CHL holder does not have to go through a NICS check, as per 27CFR 478.102(d), but they do have to fill out ATF form 4473. Also, it appears that it is the FFL's prerogative to use this method as an alternative method of the NCIS check, but he's NOT required to do so:

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/1998/ ... y-law.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(just my opinion)

[chartreuse]

As a post script on Scott's above, the dealer is required to keep the 4473 form for 20 years. After that they are to be properly disposed of...whatever that means.

Not to stray too far off topic, a CHL holder does not have to go through a NICS check, as per 27CFR 478.102(d), but they do have to fill out ATF form 4473. Also, it appears that it is the FFL's prerogative to use this method as an alternative method of the NCIS check, but he's NOT required to do so:

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/1998/ ... y-law.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(just my opinion)

Very interesting letter, Joe - thanks for letting us see it. I took two things away from that:

1: My interpretation of CHL as a NICS alternative, differs from yours, in that I did not see any mandate in the letter for the FFL to use his discretion. Of course, in real terms that's a fine distinction, as he'd be within his rights to simply turn away my business, so I may be splitting hairs here.

2: I'm surprised to see that the Texas Peace Officer License fails to qualify as a NICS alternative. Perhaps somebody here would please explain why?

[Mike1951]

The NICS exemption stipulates that a background check be done at a minimum of every 5 years.

This is why the Texas CHL, which was originally issued for four years, later switched to five years.

[joe817]

Very interesting letter, Joe - thanks for letting us see it. I took two things away from that:

1: My interpretation of CHL as a NICS alternative, differs from yours, in that I did not see any mandate in the letter for the FFL to use his discretion. Of course, in real terms that's a fine distinction, as he'd be within his rights to simply turn away my business, so I may be splitting hairs here.

2: I'm surprised to see that the Texas Peace Officer License fails to qualify as a NICS alternative. Perhaps somebody here would please explain why?

Chartreuse, I'm reading that the "alternative NICS check" an "optional", either/or situation at the dealer's prerogative. But that's an assumption on my part. And I very well could be assuming incorrectly. I find no mandate as well.

[marksiwel]

They should keep them for a year and then burn them. No reason to keep them.

I plan on getting a couple of Rifles/handguns Face to Face over the next few years "Just incase"

[swat]

i am an ffl as well as a chl instructor. ffl's have to keep the 4473 as long as we are a dealer. every one has to fill out the 4473 forum. the only thing a dealer does not have to do is call the info in if you have a tx chl. all others get called in for processing by the NICS (atf) group..

[Right2Carry]

Not to Hijack the thread.

I was watching Red Dawn the other night and for some reason noticed that after the Cubans took over one of the first commands issued was to have someone go down to the sporting goods store and round up all the 4473 forms. This was so they could find anyone with weapons and round up the potential troublemakers. I know it's a movie and all but it sort of hits close to home. More and more I am starting to like face to face transactions.

[Sasnakra]

i am an ffl as well as a chl instructor. ffl's have to keep the 4473 as long as we are a dealer. every one has to fill out the 4473 forum. the only thing a dealer does not have to do is call the info in if you have a tx chl. all others get called in for processing by the NICS (atf) group..

This process is what was explained to our CHL class in January.