Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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MojoTexas
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by MojoTexas »

blue wrote:OK. Now, has anyone got any ideas how to ? :

1) Prevent this happening again?
2) Severe penalties to those intiating/causing this sort of thing happening?
3) Automatic TOTAL removal from records when innocent.
4) Other?

2011 is comming soon, we need to get some laws to PROTECT CHLers. We walk the tightrope and certainly should be protected from what Handog has gone thru.

:txflag:
Easy. Concealed means concealed. Don't sit in a folding chair in the middle of the room with people behind you, and then retrieve your wallet while sitting. Either carry your wallet someplace different, or stand before retrieving your wallet (so your shirt doesn't rise as high) or wear longer shirts. Also, if you consistently need to pull your shirt back over your weapon when you stand up or get out of a vehicle, you're doing something wrong. Buy some longer shirts, or carry a different handgun/holster combination.

Our law is written that if you intentionally reveal your weapon, you're in violation of the law, but accidents are okay. However, the bottom line is that cops don't make the rules, they just enforce them. If someone calls 911 and says she saw a gun, a cop is going to investigate. They're not going to assume the person has their CHL. The police officer may have just decided to let the judge decide if the person is guilty or not, especially when the 911 call stated that the caller was "in fear for their life." I would guess that a lot would factor into a LEO's decision on whether or not to arrest, such as how familiar they are with CHL law, the attitude and demeanor of the person under suspicion, and even other factors such as if the cop is busy or not or about to get off their shift.

I disagree that the cop should be sued or even that the cop did anything wrong. If a police officer is in doubt about the law, I would much prefer that he arrest somebody and let the judge sort it out, than potentially let someone go who WAS in violation of the law. It's not his job to decide if you're guilty or not, it's his job to just decide if there's reason to suspect you MIGHT be in violation of the law.

This was unfortunate that handog had to go through his ordeal, but in the end the charges were dropped, and his weapon and CHL were returned, and he was only out some time and money. Hopefully we've all learned a valuable lesson. Keep it concealed, don't get cocky, and remember that even though we live in the Great State of Texas, not everyone that lives here is pro-Second Amendment.

Just my two cents, of course. I tend to see the cops as the Good Guys with difficult jobs, and if I do my part to keep it concealed, then I won't have any trouble with them. And yes, I have been arrested before and spent the night in jail, and I still see the police as the good guys.

MojoTexas :txflag:
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handog
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by handog »

"a cop is going to investigate."

Wouldn't an investigation include getting BOTH sides of the story? I watch the TV show Cops and that is what they do before they make an arrest.
Last edited by handog on Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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G26ster
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by G26ster »

handog wrote:
Page 6:

** PRINTED WHILE EVENT IN PROGRESS**
WARNING- THE FOLLOWING IS A TCIC CONCEALED HANDGUN LICENSE. THE EXISTANCE OF THIS RECORD IS AN INDICATOR THAT THE SUBJECT HAS BEEN LICENSED TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN UNDER TEXAS LAW AND NO ACTION IS REQUIRED.
Does this mean the arresting LEO had this information BEFORE he pulled handog over? Or, was this info only available AFTER the stop was made?
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OldSchool
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by OldSchool »

And, Handog, thank you for being so open and helping us all figure out how to do it better. :tiphat:
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joe817
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by joe817 »

OldSchool wrote:And, Handog, thank you for being so open and helping us all figure out how to do it better. :tiphat:
I totally agree! Thank you handog for being so open. We've ALL learned from this awful experience you had to endure. :tiphat:
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glbedd53
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by glbedd53 »

If a LEO is in doubt about the law? If a LEO is in doubt about the law, he is not doing his job. Knowing the law is his/her job. Once he sees your CHL all the bull should wind down unless CHL holder is not acting right. When he knows you have a CHL he knows you're not a Bad guy or you couldn't have it in the first place. Ever since I first started reading this story I thought it sounded like theatrics for the benefit of the crowd. And yeah I want to thank Handog for sharing this too. It's changed the way I dress.
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handog
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by handog »

You're welcome. I was just thinking of the double standard in the above post myself. If I don't know CHL law I get punished with fines and the possibility of many years behind bars yet if the LEO is not sure of the law he gets a pass. I was told in my CHL class that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Seems to me that should work both ways.
Last edited by handog on Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
driver8
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by driver8 »

Thanks from me too. I carry OWB and it's given me a lot to think about.
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Dragonfighter
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by Dragonfighter »

IIRC, the complaint stated this person was sitting four seats behind Handdog, the other three nor anyone on any side seemed to notice or care...sheesh :roll:
I Thess 5:21
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A-R
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by A-R »

MojoTexas wrote: Round Rock is just north of Austin, which is like a little pocket of California deep in the heart of Texas. I love Austin as a city, and used to live there, but if you're going to find liberal-minded gun-haters anywhere in the state, that's where I'd start looking first.
Not singling you out Mojo, but I've seen this statement that Round Rock = California liberal more than once from other posters too. While I agree with you for the most part about Austin, much of Round Rock sits in Williamson County one of the most staunchly conservative counties in Texas. Certainly Round Rock's proximity to Austin gives it a few more liberals than Georgetown or Hutto or some of the other WillCo towns further away, but it's quite a stretch to call Round Rock liberal or associate it too much with Austin or California. I'd venture to say Houston (at least inside Loop 610 and maybe even inside Beltway 8) is more liberal than Round Rock. And San Antonio inside Loop 410 is also more liberal than Round Rock.

Anyway, just clarifying from someone who lives/works right next door. Carry on ...
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03Lightningrocks
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

This whole deal is ridiculous. I also believe the arrest was made as a show for the crowd. After making complete fools of themselves, it would be pretty darned hard to let the OP walk.
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A-R
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by A-R »

MojoTexas wrote:
blue wrote:OK. Now, has anyone got any ideas how to ? :

1) Prevent this happening again?
2) Severe penalties to those intiating/causing this sort of thing happening?
3) Automatic TOTAL removal from records when innocent.
4) Other?

2011 is comming soon, we need to get some laws to PROTECT CHLers. We walk the tightrope and certainly should be protected from what Handog has gone thru.

:txflag:
Easy. Concealed means concealed. Don't sit in a folding chair in the middle of the room with people behind you, and then retrieve your wallet while sitting. Either carry your wallet someplace different, or stand before retrieving your wallet (so your shirt doesn't rise as high) or wear longer shirts. Also, if you consistently need to pull your shirt back over your weapon when you stand up or get out of a vehicle, you're doing something wrong. Buy some longer shirts, or carry a different handgun/holster combination.

Our law is written that if you intentionally reveal your weapon, you're in violation of the law, but accidents are okay. However, the bottom line is that cops don't make the rules, they just enforce them. If someone calls 911 and says she saw a gun, a cop is going to investigate. They're not going to assume the person has their CHL. The police officer may have just decided to let the judge decide if the person is guilty or not, especially when the 911 call stated that the caller was "in fear for their life." I would guess that a lot would factor into a LEO's decision on whether or not to arrest, such as how familiar they are with CHL law, the attitude and demeanor of the person under suspicion, and even other factors such as if the cop is busy or not or about to get off their shift.

I disagree that the cop should be sued or even that the cop did anything wrong. If a police officer is in doubt about the law, I would much prefer that he arrest somebody and let the judge sort it out, than potentially let someone go who WAS in violation of the law. It's not his job to decide if you're guilty or not, it's his job to just decide if there's reason to suspect you MIGHT be in violation of the law.

This was unfortunate that handog had to go through his ordeal, but in the end the charges were dropped, and his weapon and CHL were returned, and he was only out some time and money. Hopefully we've all learned a valuable lesson. Keep it concealed, don't get cocky, and remember that even though we live in the Great State of Texas, not everyone that lives here is pro-Second Amendment.

Just my two cents, of course. I tend to see the cops as the Good Guys with difficult jobs, and if I do my part to keep it concealed, then I won't have any trouble with them. And yes, I have been arrested before and spent the night in jail, and I still see the police as the good guys.

MojoTexas :txflag:
:iagree:

In three separate and very long threads on this incident, I think this may be the best analysis of the situation that I've read.

And I also thank handog for being so open in sharing all of the gory details with us. Sorry this happened to you. Glad it wasn't worse.

:patriot: :txflag: :tiphat:
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gigag04
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by gigag04 »

glbedd53 wrote:If a LEO is in doubt about the law? If a LEO is in doubt about the law, he is not doing his job. Knowing the law is his/her job.
Which law? Every law in Texas? While I would expect any active peace officer in Texas to know the CHL law, I still have too put my nose in the penal code...lawyers still re-read laws. There is too much information to "know" on hand. I can contain a good amount, but I still have my resources with me at all times (pocket penal and traffic code in my right cargo pants pocket of my uniform).

glbedd53 wrote:When he knows you have a CHL he knows you're not a Bad guy or you couldn't have it in the first place.
I've arrested CHL holders for Class A theft before. Nothing is 100%. Cops are usually pretty clean too, but every year (or quarter?) TCLEOSE publishes a list of people losing their license due to criminal activity.

handog wrote:You're welcome. I was just thinking of the double standard in the above post myself. If I don't know CHL law I get punished with fines and the possibility of many years behind bars yet if the LEO is not sure of the law he gets a pass. I was told in my CHL class that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Seems to me that should work both ways.
He wrote the PC statement so it seems he had a good understanding of the code. I'm sure it was referenced during both booking and writing stages.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
glbedd53
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by glbedd53 »

It's not exactly some little obscure law that nobody should be familiar with. I wouldn't expect a LEO to know every law in the book but this is Texas and a LOT of Texans have CHL's now and it might be high time for them know this one. It's illegal to use a cell phone while driving in a school zone now and I bet they all know that one, and that's a real new law. The notion that we just cuff em and stuff em and let the judge hash it out tomorrow or Monday is ridiculous.
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boomerang
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Re: Cuffed & Stuffed Police Report

Post by boomerang »

glbedd53 wrote:It's not exactly some little obscure law that nobody should be familiar with.
:iagree:

More importantly, if a LEO is going to arrest someone, they should know the law, or be held accountable. If they're not sure of the elements of the offense, of they're not really sure it's illegal to carry a Koran, they shouldn't arrest.

Collect information and then arrest later if it's really a crime. That would be the reasonable thing to do.
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