Denton Shooting...anyone seen this yet?

[Humanphibian]

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Man-shot ... 78429.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Crossfire]

Poor children. I see lots of anger, confusion, therapy in their future. May God bless them.

[Humanphibian]

Boy does this story hit home!!

"history of trouble" been there done that....and have the 6" stack of USELESS Protective Orders and Probation's to prove it. Sad thing is....paperwork is not a very effective shield from this crap.....well I guess a 6" thick notebook kinda makes an effective club, or ballistic shield in a pinch.....

[Humanphibian]

NO DOUBT!! We are just now seeing our kid get back to "normal" after our hoopla, but she is old enough to understand....and it didn't involve anything of this magnatude.

(btw...sorry we missed the class last week. Tami had planned a surprise party for my birthday...while I was planning on her being in Roanoke...lol. She couldn't tell me she couldn't do the class cause it would have ruined the surprise. We will plan a reschedule...together)

[wheelgun1958]

Perhaps there's more to the story, but since when is shooting an unarmed man dead in response to verbal threats self-defense?

[JNMAR]

Perhaps there's more to the story, but since when is shooting an unarmed man dead in response to verbal threats self-defense?

When you're skeered?

[JAguirre]

Perhaps there's more to the story, but since when is shooting an unarmed man dead in response to verbal threats self-defense?

When you're skeered?

As a matter of Law and from the Texas Penal Code, verbal threats do not justify deadly force, please keep in mind, I'm not a lawyer, but I am in law school and this is a subject that was covered quite extensively in Criminal Law, and there is a ton of case law regarding what does and does not constitute using justified deadly force.

Seeing that the shooter is retired LEO (and this is more than likely not the first time he has been in a situation where he was threatened), I think it may be very difficult for him or his attorney to establish that he reasonably believed that the force was necessary to protect himself or any of the third parties present.

If, however, the investigation shows that the victim had a weapon or had the immediate ability to harm the shooter, his ex-wife, or his children, that could change everything.

Here is the language from the Texas Penal Code.

§ 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against
another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is
immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful force.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows
is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace
officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or
search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under
Subsection (c);
(3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or
attempted by the other;
(4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted
use of unlawful force, unless:
(A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly
communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing
he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and
(B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts
to use unlawful force against the actor; or
(5) if the actor sought an explanation from or
discussion with the other person concerning the actor's differences
with the other person while the actor was:
(A) carrying a weapon in violation of Section
46.02; or
(B) possessing or transporting a weapon in
violation of Section 46.05.
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is
justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the
peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts
to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search;
and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably
believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself
against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use
of greater force than necessary.
(d) The use of deadly force is not justified under this
subchapter except as provided in Sections 9.32, 9.33, and 9.34.

[JNMAR]

I liked my questioned answer better...it's a lot shorter. Besides it was typed totally, "Tongue in cheek".

[JAguirre]

I liked my questioned answer better...it's a lot shorter. Besides it was typed totally, "Tongue in cheek".

No worries...I knew you were joking, but I'd hate for someone who is just casually looking at the forum to think that they can shoot just because they are skeered.

[suthdj]

This story sounds fishy to me. Did the woman get inside the guys head and have him on edge before they got there, maybe it was planned and he figures he can get off. Anyway you look at it something is missing and the only one to pay will be the kids.

[Right2Carry]

I would think an Retired LEO would show more restraint from a verbal assualt. There has to be more to this story than has been reported.

[Medic218]

Just saw on Fox 4 that they have charged the LEO(Border Patrol and Customs) with murder.
A spokesman for the PD said that though he may claim self defense that it has more elements that suggest murder.

[srothstein]

To add a technical answer on how it could justifiably be self defense, think of actions in addition to verbal threats. The law stops the use of force in response to verbal provocation ALONE, but does not stop it when combined with any actions.

So, if the ex-husband threatened to "tear his head off" and then started approaching him, a certain amount of force is legally justified. If there is sufficient disparity of force, deadly force would be justified at that point.

I would expect a retired LEO to know two important things in this case. The first is exactly how to articulate what he did and why he shot. This will be very important when his lawyer gets the case. I would also expect him to know to keep his mouth shut, both to the media and the local police. Given the lack of real facts in the article, I think this is probably what happened. it would also explain the police filing the charges, based soleley on witness statements (the ex-wife might actually hurt while/by trying to help too).

[Photoman]

I don't know the facts of this case, but I can imagine scenarios...

Let us say, for example, the other man has a history of domestic violence/physical abuse/assault that I know about and he threatens to shoot me, holding his hand in his jacket pocket while rushing toward me. I haven't seen a gun.

Do you think I should shoot or not?

[Ol Zeke]

This story sounds fishy to me. Did the woman get inside the guys head and have him on edge before they got there, maybe it was planned and he figures he can get off. Anyway you look at it something is missing and the only one to pay will be the kids.

Sounds, to me, like she may have gotten inside both their heads!?