Need help in determining eligibility for a CHL

[II KIMBER II]

First and foremost, I apologize for making another one of these threads. I am new to these forums and am looking to be a long time member. After doing some research I have come up with conflicting answers and just really want to know if I am able to get a CHL. I was hoping you guys/gals could help me out.

So here's my situation: I was convicted of a non-violent, non-drug related felony when I was a minor (15 years old). The felony is sealed and I am now 24 years old. Now here's my dilemma, I have previously heard and always believed that you have to wait 10 years from the date you were convicted of a felony in order to get a CHL. But recently I have re-research and have also came across a couple of sites that imply that if you were convicted of a felony when you were a minor (in which i was) and that if it is sealed then you can be eligible for a CHL.

One of the sites I came across that implies this is Jim Pruett's website:

You have no adult felony convictions. (Again, remember Deferred Adjudication = Conviction when it comes to CHL)

Since I have never been convicted of a felony as an adult am I eligible to get a CHL? I have called CHL instructors and talked to a few people to try and get a definite answer but have always gotten conflicting answers.

ANY help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[II KIMBER II]

Sorry, I forgot to add to the link for CHL requirements on Jim Pruett's site:

http://houstongundealer.com/concealed-h ... ements.htm

[sjfcontrol]

Well, if it was "delinquent conduct violating a penal law of the grade of felony", it only prevents getting a CHL for 10 years -- which would seem to be almost up. See 411.172(a)(13).

Hope that may help.

(Note: A "regular" (adult) felony is "PERMANENTLY" disqualifying. )
Note also, that's 10 years from the date of conviction, not the date of the offense.

And -- Welcome to the Forum!

[Crossfire]

SJF has it right. A juvenile felony grade conviction disqualifies you for 10 years from the conviction date.

Your juvenile record is sealed for public purposes, but DPS will still see it. At any rate, you can't be too far away from that 10 year anniversary now, so plan to celebrate it with a CHL class!

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

[II KIMBER II]

Thanks for quick responses guys. The offense I was convicted of is unauthorized use of a motor vehicle...

Here's another thing that led me to believe that I could get a CHL now:

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided
in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against
a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition
of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged
from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication
of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided,
or sealed under any state or federal law.

Since my offense is sealed is it truly considered a "conviction"?

On page 9
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf

[Charles L. Cotton]

Kimber: The statute you cite is a recent (2009) change and it should render you qualified for a CHL. I am curious though; were you certified as an adult? If not, you don't have a "conviction" as juveniles are not "convicted" in the traditional sense. Plus, you don't get adult criminal records sealed.

Chas.

Thanks for quick responses guys. The offense I was convicted of is unauthorized use of a motor vehicle...

Here's another thing that led me to believe that I could get a CHL now:

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided
in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against
a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition
of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged
from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication
of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided,
or sealed under any state or federal law.

Since my offense is sealed is it truly considered a "conviction"?

On page 9
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf

[II KIMBER II]

Kimber: The statute you cite is a recent (2009) change and it should render you qualified for a CHL. I am curious though; were you certified as an adult? If not, you don't have a "conviction" as juveniles are not "convicted" in the traditional sense. Plus, you don't get adult criminal records sealed.

Chas.

Thanks for quick responses guys. The offense I was convicted of is unauthorized use of a motor vehicle...

Here's another thing that led me to believe that I could get a CHL now:

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided
in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against
a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition
of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged
from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication
of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided,
or sealed under any state or federal law.

Since my offense is sealed is it truly considered a "conviction"?

On page 9
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf

No sir, i was not certified as an adult. So I am eligible?!

[Charles L. Cotton]

Kimber: The statute you cite is a recent (2009) change and it should render you qualified for a CHL. I am curious though; were you certified as an adult? If not, you don't have a "conviction" as juveniles are not "convicted" in the traditional sense. Plus, you don't get adult criminal records sealed.

Chas.

Thanks for quick responses guys. The offense I was convicted of is unauthorized use of a motor vehicle...

Here's another thing that led me to believe that I could get a CHL now:

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided
in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against
a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition
of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged
from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication
of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided,
or sealed under any state or federal law.

Since my offense is sealed is it truly considered a "conviction"?

On page 9
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf

No sir, i was not certified as an adult. So I am eligible?!

You will be, but not until the expiration of 10 years. As sjfcontrol posted, Tex. Gov't Code §411.172(a)(13) applies to "delinquent conduct violating a penal law of the grade of felony." That portion of the Code is not dealing with convictions, but with a finding of "delinquent conduct" by a minor, so the fact that the records are sealed doesn't come into play.

Chas.

[sjfcontrol]

Thanks, Charles.
So to be clear about the "Convicted" definition exception that Kimber referenced, this would apply to adult "sealed" records from other states? If not that, what does the "sealed" reference refer to? He's got me a bit confused, now.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Thanks, Charles.
So to be clear about the "Convicted" definition exception that Kimber referenced, this would apply to adult "sealed" records from other states? If not that, what does the "sealed" reference refer to? He's got me a bit confused, now.

This change was intended to statutorily correct two horrendous Texas Supreme Court cases dealing with CHL eligibility. In both cases, DPS was able to get the Court to interpret then-existing statutes in a way that absolutely perverted both the express language of the statute and legislative intent. (I bet the instructors know who was behind those cases.)

The amendment to the Code makes it even more clear that any conviction that has been "vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided, or sealed under any state or federal law" is no longer considered a conviction. This applies not only to actions by the State of Texas, but by any state or the federal government.

Adult records are not sealed in Texas (except under extraordinary circumstances), but many states do seal adult records, so they would within the scope of the newly revised code.

Chas.

[II KIMBER II]

Thank you so much for the help guys, I really appreciate the clarification. I guess I will have to wait another dreadful year in order to get a Texas CHL...

Another thing I am wondering now though, is if I am able to get a Utah CHL since I was never "convicted" of a felony...

Utah CFP Eligibility
To be eligible for a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit, you:

* Must be at least 21
* Must be fully qualified under federal and state laws to purchase and possess a firearm
* Must not have been convicted of a felony
* Must not have been convicted of a crime of domestic violence
* Must not have been adjudicated by any state or federal court as mentally incompetent
* Must not currently be subject to a Protective Order
* Must not have been convicted of a Class A misdemeanor in the past 5 years
* Must not have been convicted of a Class B or Class C misdemeanor in the past 3 years
* Must not have been convicted of a DUI OFFENSE in the past 6 years

http://www.crossfire-training.com/conte ... ility.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jester]

Thank you so much for the help guys, I really appreciate the clarification. I guess I will have to wait another dreadful year in order to get a Texas CHL...

Another thing I am wondering now though, is if I am able to get a Utah CHL since I was never "convicted" of a felony...

See the comments on juvenile offenses on page 3 of http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/docs/F ... UCTORS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[II KIMBER II]

Thank you so much for the help guys, I really appreciate the clarification. I guess I will have to wait another dreadful year in order to get a Texas CHL...

Another thing I am wondering now though, is if I am able to get a Utah CHL since I was never "convicted" of a felony...

See the comments on juvenile offenses on page 3 of http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/docs/F ... UCTORS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for that. Everything for the Utah CHL checks out. I am definitely eligible to obtain a Utah CHL. Really appreciate the help guys!

[vinnier6]

if you want to find out if your elligible, then apply...

[Justin Franklin]

Thank you so much for the help guys, I really appreciate the clarification. I guess I will have to wait another dreadful year in order to get a Texas CHL...

Another thing I am wondering now though, is if I am able to get a Utah CHL since I was never "convicted" of a felony...

Utah CFP Eligibility
To be eligible for a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit, you:

* Must be at least 21
* Must be fully qualified under federal and state laws to purchase and possess a firearm
* Must not have been convicted of a felony
* Must not have been convicted of a crime of domestic violence
* Must not have been adjudicated by any state or federal court as mentally incompetent
* Must not currently be subject to a Protective Order
* Must not have been convicted of a Class A misdemeanor in the past 5 years
* Must not have been convicted of a Class B or Class C misdemeanor in the past 3 years
* Must not have been convicted of a DUI OFFENSE in the past 6 years

http://www.crossfire-training.com/conte ... ility.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your situation is unique and I have mixed feelings on the Utah CFP situation. First, if you have turned your life around and are responsible enough to carry a concealed weapon, then I personally don't have much of an issue with getting a Utah CFP as the loop hole currently exists. On the flip side, I have a huge issue with Texas recognizing non-resident Utah CFPs. I understand that some people get it for additional reciprocity, but many have acquired it to bypass the Texas CHL. In doing so, they have only robbed themselves of a much needed education on Texas law and additional education that is mandated for the Texas CHL program. I think it's only a matter of time before someone with a Utah CFP commits a crime unknowingly because they were never properly educated on Texas law. This will put CHLers and gun owners in general in the limelight of those who want to abolish any right to own a gun.

I know a couple Utah CFP instructors that teach classes, but they absolutely will not allow someone who does not have a Texas CHL to go through their classes. I support that policy!

I hope our legislators will take the action necessary to fix this loop hole. This is not about money or getting more students in my CHL classes, rather it's about protecting our program as a whole. We are required to know traffic laws and complete driver's ed course to get a driver's license….a driver's license pales in comparison the responsibility of carrying a firearm!