IFF (Identification - Friend or Foe)

[baldeagle]

As many friendly fire incidents attest, this is a problem for the military as well. It would be nice if the enemy would always be in front of you and your friends at your side, but life doesn't work that way. One would hope that LEO trains for this sort of thing regularly. I've given some thought to this, because it is a realistic fear, as the homeowner that hoi polloi cites proves. One thing I am certain of, if I ever have to call 911 because I've either shot someone or am holding someone at gunpoint, I am going to tell them I'm a CHL holder and I am armed and give them a description of what I look like so responders can accurately ID me. If I don't have a chance to call, I'm going to yell something - I'm not sure what? I doubt police would believe me if I yelled, "I'm the good guy!" (They'd better not!) Maybe, "I'm a CHL holder! Don't shoot!!"??

It's a quandary, that's for sure.

[baldeagle]

The whole issue of IFF is a very tough nut to crack. Personally I would feel silly with the sash thingie, but it just might be the thing that gives an LEO a life-saving pause.

I guess the question is, would you rather feel silly or the life draining out of you?

[suthdj]

Or maybe...... Know the threat before you pull the trigger.

[GhostTX]

Silly? Who cares about looks? Are you going to have time to don that thing on when the a problem arises? Whip it out of your wallet or something?

As good as it is in theory, I don't see it being practical.

[Hoi Polloi]

I made some identifiers for those who are interested. They're real Swarovski crystals, so it's a steal of a deal that you can have them for only $150 for the matched pair! What's $150 when your life is on the line? You can choose from neon green, blue, pink, purple, or orange tiaras!

[Excaliber]

Good topic for discussion.

One thing that was taught to me was to This avoid turning the body in a 360 degree arc with a gun in hand, and instead keep the handgun pointed toward the known, potential or former threat while one scans by turning their head right and left as much as one's neck mobility allows. is not perfect from a scanning standpoint, but turning 360 degrees with a handgun in hand when other armed individuals (police or otherwise) are arriving on scene would not be a good thing. I would really want to have it placed on the ground or in my holster by the time the first responders arrive, though I concede it may not always work that way.

If one is holding an attacker at gunpoint, and the police come up from behind (or someone is otherwise challenged), one would be better off with the gun pointed at the threat rather than turning around with a handgun in hand. If ordered to drop the weapon, one can do so while facing away from the police or whoever is challenging him from behind. Also, I am of the persuasion that unless I am at home or I have to hold someone at gunpoint (preferably behind cover/concealment), I would seek to remove myself from the immediate incident scene and holster my weapon before dialing 911.

To reaffirm what some others have said, I would not expect to have the presence of mind to remember to put on a Good-Guy sash, vest, cap, or badge, and my belt space is already pretty crowded. I would think that my mental tasking would be better used for the visual scan that should pick up anyone (friend or foe) approaching from the forward 180 degrees or so, or to find cover/concealment.

This sort of thing would not be a bad thing to rehearse/role-play using inert blue-guns and a friend or two.

You're doing some good thinking here.

Now, a suggestion to get further insight into the first scenario you considered:

Using a blue or verified unloaded gun in an area not viewable by the public and while a friend observes, try holding it in a ready position in front of you and turning your head enough to see someone (e.g., responding police) approaching from behind. Ask the friend to carefully observe the position of your hips and gun.

While it's possible for relatively slender and limber people to turn the head enough to do so without moving their hips if they concentrate (which most people couldn't do under the pressure of a real incident), many folks can only swivel the head part way before they begin to swivel the hips too. When the hips move, the gun also moves in almost every case.

Put yourself in the position of a police officer responding to a "man with a gun" call who arrives to find a man with a gun just like he'd been told. He approaches from behind (the safest direction). How do you think he's going to interpret that hip swivel and gun movement? Remember that whether you turn right or left, if he's behind you, you're turning toward him. If he's not behind cover, he's got a small fraction of a second to figure out if you're going to complete the turn and point the gun at him or not. How sure are you that he's going to figure out your intention correctly instead of seeing your partial swivel as the beginning of an effort to bring the gun to bear on him? If he decides on option 2, what do you think he'll probably do?

Your conclusion that it would be much better to have the gun out of sight or on the ground (or car hood or roof a step or two away with hands raised palms out and in full view) when officers arrive is a valid one, though circumstances like a continued threat to you from an unsecured suspect might be such that this isn't a good option either.

[Excaliber]

Silly? Who cares about looks? Are you going to have time to don that thing on when the a problem arises? Whip it out of your wallet or something?

As good as it is in theory, I don't see it being practical.

The SWAT guy who designed it is a real world operator who goes into nasty complex situations against armed bad guys for a living. He gave a lot of thought to these issues before he came up with his patent pending product, which is designed to be rapidly deployable with the support hand only to address the issue you identified.

Some pretty practical guys in elite units who go into harm's way a lot have arrived at a different conclusion about its utility and practicality - they bought them for everyone on their teams. The county police department in the area where I used to work bought them for their plainclothes guys too after some of their officers were involved in a tragic and fatal blue on blue shooting of an officer from another nearby agency a few years ago. It took place a few blocks from my department's headquarters.

I suspect the thinking behind those purchases was: it may not be a perfect solution, but the problem is critical and needs an answer now. They concluded this is the best out there until someone figures out something better.

[Excaliber]

I made some identifiers for those who are interested. They're real Swarovski crystals, so it's a steal of a deal that you can have them for only $150 for the matched pair! What's $150 when your life is on the line? You can choose from neon green, blue, pink, purple, or orange tiaras!

Someone has too much time on her hands........

[Hoi Polloi]

Someone has too much time on her hands........

Sick little one wouldn't sleep unless I was sitting beside the bed. After the first hour, I went and got the laptop and decided to solve the problems of the world.

[Keith B]

Hmmm, I may get that flashing pink tiara. That would DEFINITELY save on me having to shoot someone; they would die from laughter just seeing me wearing it with my jammies and bunny slippers!!

[Hoi Polloi]

Hmmm, I may get that flashing pink tiara. That would DEFINITELY save on me having to shoot someone; they would die from laughter just seeing me wearing it with my jammies and bunny slippers!!

It's a real life-saver! You'll never regret it!

I got the idea from ES4Me here:

Plus, as a member of the female persuasion I am holding out for the CCW/CHL diamond encrusted pink tiara.

[Excaliber]

Hmmm, I may get that flashing pink tiara. That would DEFINITELY save on me having to shoot someone; they would die from laughter just seeing me wearing it with my jammies and bunny slippers!!

Please post picture - to help us evaluate the effectiveness of the device, of course......

[Keith B]

Hmmm, I may get that flashing pink tiara. That would DEFINITELY save on me having to shoot someone; they would die from laughter just seeing me wearing it with my jammies and bunny slippers!!

Please post picture - to help us evaluate the effectiveness of the device, of course......

Sorry, I think all my cameras are broken. You'll just have to keep that visual of your own imagination.

On a serious note, I have always been of the thought that verbal alerts are always the best. Wife telling the officers that the guy with the gun is the good guy, me yelling 'I AM THE HOME OWNER' etc is about the best method for this. No matter what it is a tough situation and the best you can try to do is neutralize the situation so the gun is not visible and you don't seem to pose a threat when the officers arrive.

[Excaliber]

Hmmm, I may get that flashing pink tiara. That would DEFINITELY save on me having to shoot someone; they would die from laughter just seeing me wearing it with my jammies and bunny slippers!!

Please post picture - to help us evaluate the effectiveness of the device, of course......

Sorry, I think all my cameras are broken. You'll just have to keep that visual of your own imagination.

On a serious note, I have always been of the thought that verbal alerts are always the best. Wife telling the officers that the guy with the gun is the good guy, me yelling 'I AM THE HOME OWNER' etc is about the best method for this. No matter what it is a tough situation and the best you can try to do is neutralize the situation so the gun is not visible and you don't seem to pose a threat when the officers arrive.

Verbalization like you describe can be helpful, but the auditory exclusion phenomenon that is common in high threat response situations may well negate it. Officers often report not hearing shouted warnings or even gunshots under these circumstances. A large, hard to miss and effectively communicating visual has a lot going for it.

That tiara might just do the trick, but we just can't be sure without a picture.

You wear the tiara - I'll supply the camera.

[yerasimos]

Excalibur, I am thinking that pulling in the gun toward the chest into a high compressed ready, while doing the scan as I described, would minimize the gun's visual signature from the rear if the hips turn while scanning, as well as allowing for better retention (flexed arms closer to the body). I do not claim this to be perfect, but I reckon this would be better than holding the gun at full extension or a more traditional low ready. I will also say that this scan can be incorporated into live fire practice with comparative safety to others who may be practicing beside you in a training squad or adjacent firing lanes at an indoor range, and I see nothing in IDPA procedures that would preclude incorporating this scan at the end of a shooting stage before showing clear and holstering.

This weekend I might be able to arrange an opportunity to look at various people doing a scan. It depends upon the time available and how persuasive I can be. Afterwards I may have more data to reassess or reject this as needed.

Suppose one has to draw and/or discharge their handgun to defend themselves. After he has won the fight (or at least its most obvious phase), what should happen next? And in what sequence?

I came up with these items:
*Scan/reassess the threat
*Scan/assess the immediate environment for additional threats, friendlies, arriving first responders, etc
*Scan and reload the weapon as needed
*Scan/self-assessment for injury
*Get to cover/concealment if available, or holster the weapon and get some distance away from the scene
*Call 911 to summon first responders to the incident scene, identify yourself, tell them you are armed and what you look like/where you are, etc
*Render self-care or care for friendlies as needed

Where would a Good-Guy sash/cap/badge/vest fit among these items?

I reckon that the greatest risk of good-on-good gunfire is immediately after weapons are drawn and shots are fired. That risk persists to some degree or another as long as the GG is out in the open with a handgun in hand. I reckon the risk is best mitigated by seeking cover/concealment, escape from the incident scene and/or holstering in the absence of an immediate threat---and one or more of these should be done whether or not one has a sash/cap/badge/vest.