Buying 2 handguns at once

[TexasTony]

Having just received my CHL, I'm in the market for some pocket pistols to keep my Glock 26 company. I am looking at a Ruger LCP for EDC and a little Beretta Bobcat 22 for fun and plinking and maybe as an alternate pocket carry (I know, its a 22).

Does anyone know if, when buying two weapons at once, are FFLs still required to notify the ATF? A friend suggested I stagger the purchases over a few days. I don't really care if the ATF knows, as they are for personal use, and I have nothing to hide.

So two questions. Does the ATF still get notified? Is there any reason I should consider staggering my purchases that is not obvious?

[seamusTX]

Yes. No (IMHO).

If you don't want BATFE to be notified, you have to wait at least five business days.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/license ... dgun-sales" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[mgood]

Yes, two or more handguns, from the same dealer, within a certain number of days (I can't remember if it's 5 days or 10), and they have to fill out a form with all the information regarding make, model serial number, your name and address, etc. One copy gets faxed to the ATF, one copy mailed to the state police, and . . . there's a third copy that I can't recall where it goes, whether it's for the FFL's records or if it gets sent somewhere too.

Not a big deal, really. Some people are concerned about having their "name on a list" somewhere and try to avoid this. If that's you, then just make the purchases at different times.

At the store where I worked, our best customers were two brothers who owned a machine shop. They regularly bought guns, usually handguns, for employees for bonuses and Christmas presents, and stuff like that. It was not unusual, say every other month, for these guys to walk out of our store with eight new handguns between them. A typical employee bonus was a Kimber 1911. They sometimes brought an employee in, pointed him at the pistol cases, and said "pick one." At Christmas, they bought a dozen Taurus snubby revolvers for gifts.
I'm sure that the ATF has at some point wondered what they're up to. They rarely bought just one, so we usually had to make out that form every time they got out the checkbook. We didn't mind and neither did they. Nothing at all illegal about it.

[A-R]

More importantly, scrap the idea of the .22 and get a snub-nose revolver

[NOS]

At the store where I worked, our best customers were two brothers who owned a machine shop. They regularly bought guns, usually handguns, for employees for bonuses and Christmas presents, and stuff like that. It was not unusual, say every other month, for these guys to walk out of our store with eight new handguns between them. A typical employee bonus was a Kimber 1911. They sometimes brought an employee in, pointed him at the pistol cases, and said "pick one." At Christmas, they bought a dozen Taurus snubby revolvers for gifts.

Where do I need to go, and who should I talk to about getting a job there?!?! I don't care what the job pays per hour, as long as they pay in handguns!

Seriously, it's not a big deal if you buy both. I've gone in and bought 3 handguns at a time and nothing came of it. I usually average 2-3 handguns a year, so I don't think that is going to have the ATF beating down my door anytime soon. Just think how many people are on the ATF's list anyway. 2 handguns is not what I would call a high threat.

[seamusTX]

The phrase "too much information" describes a real problem that government agencies have. I don't know how many people a year buy two or more handguns in a week. The number might be millions. These forms that FFLs send to BATFE are probably piled up in a cave in West Virginia collecting dust.

If some government agency had an electronic database, all they could conclude is, "Wow! a lot of people own a lot of guns."

- Jim

[mgood]

Where do I need to go, and who should I talk to about getting a job there?!?! I don't care what the job pays per hour, as long as they pay in handguns!

This was in Hobbs, New Mexico.
These guys were great. They weren't really trying to be activists, they just liked shooting, all kinds, and brought as many people as they could into the shooting sports with them. They'd arrive at local matches with two car loads of family and friends, people who otherwise would probably never have gotten involved.
They signed employees up for concealed carry lincense classes. (I don't know if they paid for that, but they did encourage it.)

[gwtrikenut]

Wow. Need more employers like these two. Not only were they concerned about their employees, but got involved in their private lives too. Making sure they were happy. Gifts mean a lot to employees. And if everyone gets a gift, that means the company is making money, and a great write off to boot.

[TexasTony]

I guess it doesn't matter then. I may just stagger the purchases anyway just for privacy.

[Salty1]

"At the store where I worked, our best customers were two brothers who owned a machine shop. They regularly bought guns, usually handguns, for employees for bonuses and Christmas presents, and stuff like that. It was not unusual, say every other month, for these guys to walk out of our store with eight new handguns between them. A typical employee bonus was a Kimber 1911. They sometimes brought an employee in, pointed him at the pistol cases, and said "pick one." At Christmas, they bought a dozen Taurus snubby revolvers for gifts.
I'm sure that the ATF has at some point wondered what they're up to. They rarely bought just one, so we usually had to make out that form every time they got out the checkbook. We didn't mind and neither did they. Nothing at all illegal about it."

This is considered a Straw Purchase I believe. The 4473 Form has a box that must be chacked that states that you are not buying the firearm on the behalf of another person. I asked the ATF about buying a firearm as a gift when we open our company and was told it was not legal, the actual owner must come in and complete the paperwork. I would hate to lose my FFL license due to the way the ATF interprets the law.

[seamusTX]

Gifts are not straw purchases.

However, nearly everyone who wants to perform this type of transfer to anyone who is not a close relative or best friend either gives the person a voucher or gift card or has the transfer run through an FFL.

That's what these car dealers who advertise "free gun with the purchase of a car" do.

- Jim

[mgood]

"At the store where I worked, our best customers were two brothers who owned a machine shop. They regularly bought guns, usually handguns, for employees for bonuses and Christmas presents, and stuff like that. It was not unusual, say every other month, for these guys to walk out of our store with eight new handguns between them. A typical employee bonus was a Kimber 1911. They sometimes brought an employee in, pointed him at the pistol cases, and said "pick one." At Christmas, they bought a dozen Taurus snubby revolvers for gifts.
I'm sure that the ATF has at some point wondered what they're up to. They rarely bought just one, so we usually had to make out that form every time they got out the checkbook. We didn't mind and neither did they. Nothing at all illegal about it."

This is considered a Straw Purchase I believe. The 4473 Form has a box that must be chacked that states that you are not buying the firearm on the behalf of another person. I asked the ATF about buying a firearm as a gift when we open our company and was told it was not legal, the actual owner must come in and complete the paperwork. I would hate to lose my FFL license due to the way the ATF interprets the law.

In most cases, the recipient did fill out the paperwork. But the owner of our store was told by the ATF that there was nothing illegal about buying a gun as a gift. Usually that means a wife buying a Christmas gift for a husband or a father buying a birthday gift for a son, or something along that line.

[03Lightningrocks]

Gifts are not straw purchases.

However, nearly everyone who wants to perform this type of transfer to anyone who is not a close relative or best friend either gives the person a voucher or gift card or has the transfer run through an FFL.

That's what these car dealers who advertise "free gun with the purchase of a car" do.

- Jim

That is exactly how our business attorney told us to handle this situation. Of coarse I have given guns to both my adult children and also my son in law as gifts, but I was thinking about giving a Kimber for a year end bonus for top performing Technician. The line between "gift" and straw purchase concerned him. His secondary concern was that giving a gun or a gun buying gift card was a possible liability risk...LOL. he shoots his own foot off and I get sued! We decided we would just do a cash bonus instead.

[NOS]

Gifts are not straw purchases.

However, nearly everyone who wants to perform this type of transfer to anyone who is not a close relative or best friend either gives the person a voucher or gift card or has the transfer run through an FFL.

That's what these car dealers who advertise "free gun with the purchase of a car" do.

- Jim

Where do I need to go, and who should I talk to about getting a job there?!?! I don't care what the job pays per hour, as long as they pay in handguns!

This was in Hobbs, New Mexico.
These guys were great. They weren't really trying to be activists, they just liked shooting, all kinds, and brought as many people as they could into the shooting sports with them. They'd arrive at local matches with two car loads of family and friends, people who otherwise would probably never have gotten involved.
They signed employees up for concealed carry lincense classes. (I don't know if they paid for that, but they did encourage it.)

Well, I've never been a fan of Hobbs, but that does sweeten the pot some. The world needs more folks like these guys that can open up people to the shooting sports.

[seamusTX]

We decided we would just do a cash bonus instead.

I have always told my bosses that were not beneath contempt, just give me the cash. I have enough attaboys, plaques, paper weights, engraved pens, and embroidered shirts to last two lifetimes.

Even if someone wanted to give me a firearm, I might not appreciate their choice. I might prefer an over-under shotgun or one of those Italian faux cowboy revolvers.

- Jim