"small" 30.06 sign

[hangfour]

My wife and I were walking in the mall yesterday and we noticed that the movie theater there had a 30.06 sign with the correct language but it was really tiny. The letters were only about 3/8" high. This according to what I read in the law is an improper sign and I can legally carry in the theater. I was wondering why the sign was so small ... I'm betting that they know that the letters must be 1" inch high and, not to lose business, the theater owners have purposively made the sign invalid as to not lose CHL customers. Is this correct?

Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) further states that a sign must meet the following requirements:
includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

[Teamless]

you can legally carry there, as it does not meet the height requirement.

As far as their reasoning, one could only speculate.

[dicion]

I'm guessing it was an AMC Theater?

They're (in)famous for their small 30.06 signs in the lower corner of their doors. Seems to be a common thing.

[chasfm11]

I'm sorry but I'm cynical. I've watched businesses for more than 30 years try to do the minimum in complying with some laws. They believe that they are legally protected as long as they make some token effort toward compliance. The fact that the letters are supposed to be 1" tall to make sure that people that need to see the sign can see it doesn't matter to them.

The sad part is that some LE organizations will play along with them.

[PRO]

I spent a lot of time at the S&W hospital in Temple Sunday night and noticed their 30.06 sign did not meet height requirements. I thought about it and decided this is a place I would disarm. As I had no choice but to be there, I would. On the other hand, businesses that are not friendly to my choice to protect my family and self will not receive my business.

[Oldgringo]

ETMC also has small letters on their signs. These businesses are straddling the fence with their 30.06 sign. It's there should they need it (intent) and it's not there if they don't need it. Their legal folk know the rules...you betcha'.

In summary, pass that sign at your own risk. Come to think of it, isn't pretty much everything we do, we do at our own risk. BTW, in case you're wondering, IANAL.

Y'all have a nice day...hear?

[RHenriksen]

A very high-end, very security conscious office park @ Allen Parkway & Waugh used to have itty-bitty 30.06 signs @ the security desks where you'd pick up a visitor badge & go through the access gates. Within the last year or so, the itty-bitty signs disappeared, and I haven't seen any full-sized replacements, either.

[hangfour]

Good morning everyone ... thanks for the posts on this topic. Bottom line is that my wife and I won't spend our money at that theater; there are other venues where the same shows are playing that don't involve taking a risk.

One of my favorite sayings (that I live by) is: "what we spend our money on is what we vote to exist in the world". I sometimes think that my votes with my pocketbook have more impact than my vote at the polling place.

[Chinaman0389]

you can legally carry there, as it does not meet the height requirement.

As far as their reasoning, one could only speculate.

So you are saying at any place that displays an incorrect 30.06, I can carry leagally? What if the place has the circle slash with a gun?... So i am guessing ONLY the 30.06 and the 51% and if CORRECTLY posted can stop you...

[dicion]

So you are saying at any place that displays an incorrect 30.06, I can carry leagally? What if the place has the circle slash with a gun?... So i am guessing ONLY the 30.06 and the 51% and if CORRECTLY posted can stop you...

Correct.... sort of.
On the 30.06, yes, only a correctly posted, legally sized 30.06 sign is valid. Anything else (gunbusters, small sign) does not meet the legal definition of 'notice' required to prevent carry.

On the 51% Sign, the actual sign itself is not what prevents carry there. It's the Alcohol license of the premises being of a certain kind that actually prevents carry.
However, as of the last legislative session, if the sign is not correctly posted (English and Spanish, at the Entrance of the premises) then it is a DEFENSE TO PROSECUTION.
This is quite different, in the fact that they still CAN Arrest you, and you still CAN go to trial, but if you can PROVE it was not properly posted (burden of proof is on YOU IIRC), then they have to let you off.

I still highly recommend actually checking the TABC Licence of any places you might suspect.
If it says "SIGN=RED", get your butt out of there

[Chinaman0389]

COOL...I was thinking about that as i pulled my CHL from the envelope when i got it int he mail yesterday...and i love this forum (first time here)

[ScottDLS]

So you are saying at any place that displays an incorrect 30.06, I can carry leagally? What if the place has the circle slash with a gun?... So i am guessing ONLY the 30.06 and the 51% and if CORRECTLY posted can stop you...

Correct.... sort of.
On the 30.06, yes, only a correctly posted, legally sized 30.06 sign is valid. Anything else (gunbusters, small sign) does not meet the legal definition of 'notice' required to prevent carry.

On the 51% Sign, the actual sign itself is not what prevents carry there. It's the Alcohol license of the premises being of a certain kind that actually prevents carry.
However, as of the last legislative session, if the sign is not correctly posted (English and Spanish, at the Entrance of the premises) then it is a DEFENSE TO PROSECUTION.
This is quite different, in the fact that they still CAN Arrest you, and you still CAN go to trial, but if you can PROVE it was not properly posted (burden of proof is on YOU IIRC), then they have to let you off.

I still highly recommend actually checking the TABC Licence of any places you might suspect.
If it says "SIGN=RED", get your butt out of there

I agree with your summary of 30.06 an 51% legal issues... with the following clarification.

A Defense to Prosecution ("Defense"), if known to the police, is likely to keep you from being arrested. If presented to the DA at arraignment is likely to result in the charges being dropped. And if presented to the judge pre-trial is likely to avoid a trial. The reason is that a Defense must be refuted by the prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt if presented at trial. That's the same standard for proving a violation of a statute that doesn't apply (like 30.06 without proper notice). The only difference is that the prosecution is not required to present your Defense. You must present it.

So sure you could be arrested for walking into an unposted 51% location. Just as you could be arrested for accidentally exposing your handgun (a la Handog), even though it's not a crime. In 1996, having a CHL was "only" a Defense to Prosecution for Unlawful Carry of a Weapon, but I didn't hear of mass arrests of CHL's.

[ELB]

I agree with your summary of 30.06 an 51% legal issues... with the following clarification.

A Defense to Prosecution ("Defense"), if known to the police, is likely to keep you from being arrested. If presented to the DA at arraignment is likely to result in the charges being dropped. And if presented to the judge pre-trial is likely to avoid a trial. The reason is that a Defense must be refuted by the prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt if presented at trial. That's the same standard for proving a violation of a statute that doesn't apply (like 30.06 without proper notice). The only difference is that the prosecution is not required to present your Defense. You must present it.

That's good to know. At least, I did not know that.

Frankly, I think most businesses that pose inept signs do so from ineptness, not from any sly wink or nod. Which is fine with me. I will avoid those I can, and if I can't, the non-compliant sign is most helpful.