process of buying new gun????

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:11 pm

DustinB wrote:I think they should make a law requiring a background check on any pistol at gun shows, not just a new one. God knows how many felons have bought them that way.

Of course God knows. So does the National Institute of Justice, which interviewed convicts. The number is 2% of the firearms used in the commission of a crime.

Far more (about 25%) come through FFLs and straw buyers.

You need the same background check to buy a new or used firearm from an FFL. As far as I know, there is no legal distinction between new and used until you get to curios and antiques.

- Jim

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:23 pm

DustinB wrote:I think they should make a law requiring a background check on any pistol at gun shows, not just a new one. God knows how many felons have bought them that way.

New or used, it doesn't matter: if you buy it from an FFL, the process is the same whether it's at a store, or at a show.

Darn few felons have bought their guns at gun shows, or even at gun stores. Most either steal them, or buy them from another felon who stole them.

Personally, I don't have a problem with felons owning guns. If they can't be trusted, they should still be in prison.

Kevin

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:43 pm

KBCraig wrote:Personally, I don't have a problem with felons owning guns. If they can't be trusted, they should still be in prison.

You mean felons who have served their time, right?

Unfortunately, there's no graduation exam for prison. If they've served their sentence, they will be released, even if they're going to commit another offence ten feet from the prison gate.

It seems that when ex-cons are found with weapons, they are also involved with drugs or other illegal activity. It's almost amazing sometimes: UCW, DWI, no license, stolen vehicle, dope, resisting arrest, yada yada, all at once.

- Jim

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:39 pm

seamusTX wrote:
KBCraig wrote:Personally, I don't have a problem with felons owning guns. If they can't be trusted, they should still be in prison.
You mean felons who have served their time, right?

Yes. Thus the statement I just highlighted.

Unfortunately, there's no graduation exam for prison. If they've served their sentence, they will be released, even if they're going to commit another offence ten feet from the prison gate.

What about those who will be victims after they hit the street? Should they be denied the basic human right to self defense?

It seems that when ex-cons are found with weapons, they are also involved with drugs or other illegal activity. It's almost amazing sometimes: UCW, DWI, no license, stolen vehicle, dope, resisting arrest, yada yada, all at once.

- Jim

Then arrest them for the drugs, DWI, stolen vehicle, etc. If an ex-con truly goes ex (and it does happen), do you think he should be arrested for having a gun alone, with no other evidence of criminal behavior?

Cons who go straight back to thug life are job insurance for me, but it's unwise to assume that all ex-felons will continue a life of violent crime.

After all, here's a fellow who will be released in the next month, who has no violent history (merely sticky fingers). Why should he be unable to own a gun for defense, sport, recreation, or collecting?

Kevin

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:17 pm

I bought a gun Saturday at the gun show, and the guy called in a background check on me anyway. He had me fill out the paper and all.
(and I handed him my CHL and driver's license). I thought it was weird.

(Maybe he thought I was a felon.)

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:37 pm

KBCraig wrote:What about those who will be victims after they hit the street? Should they be denied the basic human right to self defense?

No. Even now, they can carry legal knives, pepper spray, and a sock full of quarters.

KBCraig wrote:If an ex-con truly goes ex (and it does happen), do you think he should be arrested for having a gun alone, with no other evidence of criminal behavior?

Not really. I just like to hash things out.

- Jim

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:33 pm

Venus Pax wrote:I bought a gun Saturday at the gun show, and the guy called in a background check on me anyway. He had me fill out the paper and all.
(and I handed him my CHL and driver's license). I thought it was weird.

(Maybe he thought I was a felon.)

Your CHL doesn't get you out of the paperwork requirement, just the phone call to NICS.

Some dealers are overly cautious (or poorly informed as to the law).

Kevin

308nato · Post by **308nato** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:11 am

I don"t blame the dealers for being cautious the way the ATF wants every
i dotted and t crossed just right or they come down on them like
flies on cow pies.

Roger Howard · Post by **Roger Howard** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:55 am

KBCraig wrote:
Venus Pax wrote:I bought a gun Saturday at the gun show, and the guy called in a background check on me anyway. He had me fill out the paper and all.
(and I handed him my CHL and driver's license). I thought it was weird.

(Maybe he thought I was a felon.)
Your CHL doesn't get you out of the paperwork requirement, just the phone call to NICS.

Some dealers are overly cautious (or poorly informed as to the law).

Kevin

VP, you wern't dressed like a gangsta' were you.

Gotta' have papar but no call. I bought a shotgun from Academy. Gave them my CDL and CHL and they still called NICS. When I questioned them why they just said it was "policy". I heard from a friend, that is an FFL, that they were having problems with the ATF over their paperwork.
He also told me that Wally-world was having the same type issues and that's why they were pulling guns off the shelves.

isa268 · Post by **isa268** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:49 am

DustinB wrote:I think they should make a law requiring a background check on any pistol at gun shows, not just a new one. God knows how many felons have bought them that way.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria

yea that's talking about carrying arms, but the general idea is still there, criminals don't get guns from FFL's.

and as to how many criminals buy guns from gun shows.

Only 0.7% of convicts bought their firearms at gun shows. 39.2% obtained them
from illegal street dealers. (Bureau of Justice Statistics, â€œFirearm Use by Offendersâ€?, November 2001)

www.gunfacts.info/

Jacob Staff · Post by **Jacob Staff** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:14 pm

DustinB wrote:Delayed is very unlikely if the dealer doesn't do something dumb like not give them your social security number.

The dealer has never given them my social security number and it when through with no problems. The SS# is optional and I did not put it on the form.

Including it may be useful if you have a very common name or have had to wait the 3 days before.

I hate giving out my SS# but it seems like everyone wants it these days to run a credit check. When anyone asks for my number, I always ask if it is an abolute requirement or if a drivers licence number will work instead.