Reciprocity Question

[Douva]

I've been reading various news articles, message board posts, and state websites regarding CHL/CCW/CHP/CFP reciprocity, and it seems that the two biggest hurdles to having one state license that is recognized by all shall-issue states (with the exception of Oregon, which has no reciprocity) are "minimum age limit" and "live-fire training." For example, if what I read is correct, Washington doesn't honor Texas CHL's because Texas issues licenses to military personnel under the age of 21 (apparently, adding the line "must meet minimum age requirement" to the reciprocity agreement was too much trouble for the State of Washington), and Nevada quit accepting Utah permits because Utah doesn't require live-fire training.

So, my question is this: Why can't Texas create a special reciprocity-friendly license on top of the license currently issued? Couldn't there be a "Class B" CHL or something like that, which would meet the minimum age and training requirements (as well as the computer database requirements and whatever other requirements exist) to be honored in Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Washington, and West Virginia? Then Texas could seek reciprocity in those states for its "Class B" license.

In light of the fact that most Texas CHL holders already meet the age, training, and residency requirements set forth by those six states, it seems silly that a Texas CHL holder must currently have a four ADDITIONAL licenses (Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, and either Florida or Utah) in order to get full reciprocity.

[Keith B]

I've been reading various news articles, message board posts, and state websites regarding CHL/CCW/CHP/CFP reciprocity, and it seems that the two biggest hurdles to having one state license that is recognized by all shall-issue states (with the exception of Oregon, which has no reciprocity) are "minimum age limit" and "live-fire training." For example, if what I read is correct, Washington doesn't honor Texas CHL's because Texas issues licenses to military personnel under the age of 21 (apparently, adding the line "must meet minimum age requirement" to the reciprocity agreement was too much trouble for the State of Washington), and Nevada quit accepting Utah permits because Utah doesn't require live-fire training.

So, my question is this: Why can't Texas create a special reciprocity-friendly license on top of the license currently issued? Couldn't there be a "Class B" CHL or something like that, which would meet the minimum age and training requirements (as well as the computer database requirements and whatever other requirements exist) to be honored in Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Washington, and West Virginia? Then Texas could seek reciprocity in those states for its "Class B" license.

In light of the fact that most Texas CHL holders already meet the age, training, and residency requirements set forth by those six states, it seems silly that a Texas CHL holder must currently have a four ADDITIONAL licenses (Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, and either Florida or Utah) in order to get full reciprocity.

IMO it would be far easier for the other state to just require you to be 21 for your license to be reciprocal with that state. In other words, anyone with a Texas license that was 21 or older would be legal, under 21 not.

[Douva]

I've been reading various news articles, message board posts, and state websites regarding CHL/CCW/CHP/CFP reciprocity, and it seems that the two biggest hurdles to having one state license that is recognized by all shall-issue states (with the exception of Oregon, which has no reciprocity) are "minimum age limit" and "live-fire training." For example, if what I read is correct, Washington doesn't honor Texas CHL's because Texas issues licenses to military personnel under the age of 21 (apparently, adding the line "must meet minimum age requirement" to the reciprocity agreement was too much trouble for the State of Washington), and Nevada quit accepting Utah permits because Utah doesn't require live-fire training.

So, my question is this: Why can't Texas create a special reciprocity-friendly license on top of the license currently issued? Couldn't there be a "Class B" CHL or something like that, which would meet the minimum age and training requirements (as well as the computer database requirements and whatever other requirements exist) to be honored in Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Washington, and West Virginia? Then Texas could seek reciprocity in those states for its "Class B" license.

In light of the fact that most Texas CHL holders already meet the age, training, and residency requirements set forth by those six states, it seems silly that a Texas CHL holder must currently have a four ADDITIONAL licenses (Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, and either Florida or Utah) in order to get full reciprocity.

IMO it would be far easier for the other state to just require you to be 21 for your license to be reciprocal with that state. In other words, anyone with a Texas license that was 21 or older would be legal, under 21 not.

Well, clearly that would be easier, but since those states don't seem to think their police officers are capable of subtracting the date on a Texas CHL from the current date, that may not be viable solution.

Since the only things precluding reciprocity with those states are relatively minor differences, couldn't Texas just issue two classes of CHL? It would basically be a matter of how the plastic is branded. Here's a thought: Let's get rid of the SA/NSA distinction on the Texas license and replace it with a "meets all reciprocity requirements"/"doesn't meet all reciprocity requirements" distinction.

I don't think any shall-issue state has tougher licensing requirements than Texas, so it seems absurd to me that there are states that honor the Utah (no live-fire required), Florida (accepts any firearms training course, including hunter safety, that incorporates live fire), and/or Louisiana (accepts any pistol course that incorporates live fire) permit but not the Texas permit. If those states are hung up on age or residency or whatever, a two-tier licensing system might alleviate those concerns and secure reciprocity for the majority of Texas CHL holders.

It's not that I frequent Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Washington, or West Virginia. I just think it makes no sense that we can't find a way to get those states to reciprocate with us.

[Keith B]

Well, clearly that would be easier, but since those states don't seem to think their police officers are capable of subtracting the date on a Texas CHL from the current date, that may not be viable solution.

I don't see why it would be that big a deal. Several states already don't honor non-resident licenses from other states, but honor that states resident ones, so not any different looking at the age. Besides, the Texas and most other states DL is different for minors that adults 21 or over. They are either stamped MINOR in big red letters or some other identifiable markings.

Getting Texas to set up a second license would be way more administrative headache than just approaching the other states to see if they would honor the 'no one under 21' reciprocity IMO.

[Douva]

Getting Texas to set up a second license would be way more administrative headache than just approaching the other states to see if they would honor the 'no one under 21' reciprocity IMO.

True, but if I understand correctly, some states simply refuse to do that.

[jester]

Your best bet is to support the NRA lawsuit. If the age becomes 18 for everyone nationwide, it's no longer an issue.

[Douva]

Your best bet is to support the NRA lawsuit. If the age becomes 18 for everyone nationwide, it's no longer an issue.

How exactly does one "support" a lawsuit? Are we supposed to lobby the judge?

[Crossfire]

Your best bet is to support the NRA lawsuit. If the age becomes 18 for everyone nationwide, it's no longer an issue.

How exactly does one "support" a lawsuit? Are we supposed to lobby the judge?

By supporting the NRA with your membership, and the NRA ILA with your donations.

[Douva]

Your best bet is to support the NRA lawsuit. If the age becomes 18 for everyone nationwide, it's no longer an issue.

How exactly does one "support" a lawsuit? Are we supposed to lobby the judge?

By supporting the NRA with your membership, and the NRA ILA with your donations.

Okay, but assuming the lawsuit isn't successful or doesn't solve all of our problems, does anyone else think it might be possible to create a workaround for the remaining hurdles to reciprocity with those six states?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Your best bet is to support the NRA lawsuit. If the age becomes 18 for everyone nationwide, it's no longer an issue.

How exactly does one "support" a lawsuit? Are we supposed to lobby the judge?

By supporting the NRA with your membership, and the NRA ILA with your donations.

Okay, but assuming the lawsuit isn't successful or doesn't solve all of our problems, does anyone else think it might be possible to create a workaround for the remaining hurdles to reciprocity with those six states?

It's not necessary. Some states (Colorado and Nebraska) already recognize a Texas CHL but only for persons age 21 and over. Ryan has that notation on the reciprocity map at viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3010&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW, the excuse given by Nevada for repealing its recognition of Utah licenses was the lack of a shooting qualification. However, the real reason is that their legislature got mad at Utah instructors marketing a Utah CFP over a Nevada license.

Washington never recognized a Texas CHL even when the minimum age was 21. I say that somewhat guardedly because I'm not sure if Washington had concealed carry at the time when the minimum age in Texas was 21.

Chas.

[cbr600]

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[cbr600]

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[Jumping Frog]

It's not that I frequent Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Washington, or West Virginia. I just think it makes no sense that we can't find a way to get those states to reciprocate with us.

Well, I can't speak to the other states but I can speak regarding Ohio. It isn't that Ohio won't reciprocate with Texas -- it is the other way around. Texas won't reciprocate with Ohio because we do not perform an FBI NICS background check as part of issuing a license for anyone who has been in Ohio for more than the last five years. If you are a long-time Ohio resident, they simply have the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation perform the background check.

[BrianSW99]

It seems like that would be alot of time and expense for Texas to establish a different license when there's no guarantee any state will change their reciprocity based on it.

[boba]

It seems like that would be alot of time and expense for Texas to establish a different license when there's no guarantee any state will change their reciprocity based on it.