Traveling in other states - with a twist

[terryg]

I usually travel between 1 to 3 times a year for work. I have not yet attempted to travel by air with a weapon. I have been thinking about this and learning what I can over the past few months.

First of all I work for a University where weapons are prohibited on campus. But the only policy statement regarding weapons off campus I can find is:

It (i.e. university weapons policy) also prohibits the use of these items at University sponsored events on or off campus.

Now, while this could be read broadly to include University paid travel to non-University sponsored events, I believe it is more geared to actual University functions that are being held off campus. So I am not too worried about company policy in this regard.

However the various state laws can be very confusing - although much information is available on-line at various sites. But these only tend to cover in vehicle possession. What about the following:

In most cases, these are trips that I have arranged and have control over (usually conferences in Las Vegas). But some of these trips are coordinated (and paid for) by companies with which we do business. And many times we will check out of the hotel on the final day, travel to the company property to conduct the final day of business. We will leave our luggage in a (fairly) secure area of this building and then later leave to go to the airport from that location.

One such company is located just south of the NY/NJ line in NJ and we usually hotel just north of the line in NY. As best I can tell, no matter how I slice it, I would pretty much be out of luck on these trips - especially if I fly into JFK or Laguardia.

But another company is in CA and, as best I can tell, I would be able to transport the still locked-up handgun in a vehicle to my hotel without breaking the law. But I don't know how the law would apply when I will be spending the last day in the corporate office with my locked bag in tow. Can anyone offer any guidance on this?

[Keith B]

I am not 100% clear on what you are asking, but will try to take a stab at it.

First off, there is legal and there is University policy, which are two separate things. I believe you are more looking at policy. The violation of policy, unless the violation also breaks a law, is not illegal but could get you fired.

SO, with that said, I believe you were wondering about transporting a locked firearm in California in your baggage. There are a couple of factors here; one is to make sure the firearm is legal in California per their laws. You can't take a semi-auto magazine into the state that has more than a 10 round capacity.

As for transporting, you can transport it in a locked container, and have it in the motor vehicle. I have not been able to find anything that prohibits you from taking it into the building locked in a case that meets the requirements of the law, but you might be breaking company policy, and could get fired.

Here are some good links:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WildBill]

Terryg - I think that this is a case of a Catch-22 situation. How do you get your locked guncase [containing a handgun] into the vehicle without violating the "concealed carry" law? IMO, as long as you are going directly from the vehicle into the hotel room you should be okay. I don't know the statute, but I believe it's like carrying a gun into a gun range or loading up your vehicle to go hunting. But as usual IANAL.

[Barbi Q]

Terryg - I think that this is a case of a Catch-22 situation. How do you get your locked guncase [containing a handgun] into the vehicle without violating the "concealed carry" law?

That depends on the concealed carry law. Some states exclude unloaded firearms from their concealed carry law. Some states exclude a firearm that's not readily accessible, like in a locked case.

But I don't know the situation in NY, NJ and other parts of southern Canada.

[WildBill]

Terryg - I think that this is a case of a Catch-22 situation. How do you get your locked guncase [containing a handgun] into the vehicle without violating the "concealed carry" law?

That depends on the concealed carry law. Some states exclude unloaded firearms from their concealed carry law. Some states exclude a firearm that's not readily accessible, like in a locked case.

But I don't know the situation in NY, NJ and other parts of southern Canada.

California is not one of these states. In fact their law doesn't limit concealed carry to "handguns." As usual, IANAL in Texas or California.

Carrying a Concealed Handgun Without a License on One's Person or Concealed in a Vehicle
Pursuant to Penal Code section 12025, a person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he
or she does any of the following:
• Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control, any pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
• Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.
• Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant
any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

Terryg - I think that this is a case of a Catch-22 situation. How do you get your locked guncase [containing a handgun] into the vehicle without violating the "concealed carry" law? IMO, as long as you are going directly from the vehicle into the hotel room you should be okay. I don't know the statute, but I believe it's like carrying a gun into a gun range or loading up your vehicle to go hunting. But as usual IANAL.

Terryg - I believe these are the applicable statutes.

Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or possession of a
firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:
• The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm in order to comply
with Article 1 (commencing with section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the
Civil Code as it pertains to that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law
enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or
she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency. (Penal Code § 12026.2(a)(17).)
• The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm, and is transporting it to a law
enforcement agency for disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the law
enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency for
disposition according to law. Firearms must be transported unloaded and in a locked container
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations, as
necessary. (Penal Code §§ 12026.2(a)(17), (18) and (b).)
• The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed
manner pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with section 12050) of the Penal Code.
• Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing
shooting at targets upon established target ranges, whether public or private, while
the members are using concealable firearms upon the target ranges.
• Authorized peace officers, retired peace officers, and retired federal officers or agents,
as defined in Penal Code sections 830.1, 830.2, 830.5, 12027(a) and 12031(b).
• Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going
to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.
• The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms
capable of being concealed upon the person as merchandise by a person who is
licensed in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms.
California Firearms Laws 2007 30
• The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed
upon the person by duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the
members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective
organizations.
• Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions
while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of
any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.
• Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a licensed common carrier
or an authorized agent or employee thereof when transported in conformance with applicable
federal law.
Notwithstanding the exceptions cited in Section 5. Loaded Firearms, individuals may not carry or
transport a loaded firearm. The firearm should be unloaded and placed in the trunk of the vehicle,
or if the vehicle has no trunk, placed in a fully enclosed secure locked container other than the utility
or glove compartment of a motor vehicle (Penal Code §§ 12026.1, 12027.)

[terryg]

I am not 100% clear on what you are asking, but will try to take a stab at it.

Sorry for the confusion - and thank you ...

First off, there is legal and there is University policy, which are two separate things. I believe you are more looking at policy. The violation of policy, unless the violation also breaks a law, is not illegal but could get you fired.

Correct. So my first statement was looking at the university policy which, I believe, is not specific enough to prevent to apply to me while traveling. It possibly could be read in a strict manner to apply - but in the end it doesn't matter too much because in Texas, they can fire without cause anyway. But in general, it would seem to me to be consistant with the 'spirit' of the policy - even though the trip is University funded.

But the more major issue was legal in nature. Specifically, how to interpret or apply the various state laws to the situation where between the hotel and the airport, I (and my locked luggage) would spend the day in a corporate office.

SO, with that said, I believe you were wondering about transporting a locked firearm in California in your baggage. There are a couple of factors here; one is to make sure the firearm is legal in California per their laws. You can't take a semi-auto magazine into the state that has more than a 10 round capacity. As for transporting, you can transport it in a locked container, and have it in the motor vehicle. I have not been able to find anything that prohibits you from taking it into the building locked in a case that meets the requirements of the law, ...

Right - I understand and this information is available. I should have no problem with a most semi-automatics with magazines 10 rounds and smaller as long as it stays locked in my luggage between the airport and the hotel. This should apply whether I am renting a car or traveling by taxi, shuttle, etc.

... but you might be breaking company policy, and could get fired.

Here is where the uncertainty applies. Now this is not the company I work for but rather I am a guest of the a company that we do business with. I would be on the premises of this other company and my handgun would be unloaded and locked inside of my luggage during this part of our meeting.

So from the perspective of the policy of the University for which I work, I would think that I would be ok. But I don't know if I would be ok legally per the laws of the state (CA in this case).

Does that make more sense?

[terryg]

Terryg - I think that this is a case of a Catch-22 situation. How do you get your locked guncase [containing a handgun] into the vehicle without violating the "concealed carry" law? IMO, as long as you are going directly from the vehicle into the hotel room you should be okay. I don't know the statute, but I believe it's like carrying a gun into a gun range or loading up your vehicle to go hunting. But as usual IANAL.

Right. The way I read it, I should be able to essentially leave it locked up in my luggage as required by TSA and transport it from the vehicle to the hotel and vice versa without issue - as long as it qualifies to be in CA in the first place (i.e. 10 rounds mag, etc.).

But I don't know about stopping at these corporate offices for several hours between the hotel and airport. Even if still unloaded and locked in my luggage - I am no longer 'traveling' at that point. So this particular itinerary could, potentially, prevent me from legally carrying on these trips.

[WildBill]

Does that make more sense?

I think that both of you are confused, because you still are thinking in terms of Texas laws. In California, company policies and prohibited places are not relevant to you. Since you don't have a "California CHL" basically every place, except your home [hotel room], is a "prohibited place." IANAL

[WildBill]

Right. The way I read it, I should be able to essentially leave it locked up in my luggage as required by TSA and transport it from the vehicle to the hotel and vice versa without issue - as long as it qualifies to be in CA in the first place (i.e. 10 rounds mag, etc.).

But I don't know about stopping at these corporate offices for several hours between the hotel and airport. Even if still unloaded and locked in my luggage - I am no longer 'traveling' at that point. So this particular itinerary could, potentially, prevent me from legally carrying on these trips.

Unless it stays in the car or your corporate offices are gun manufacturers/stores, shooting ranges or hunting lodges.

[terryg]

Does that make more sense?

I think that both of you are confused, because you still are thinking in terms of Texas laws. In California, company policies and prohibited places are not relevant to you. Since you don't have a "California CHL" basically every place, except your home [hotel room], is a "prohibited place." IANAL

I am sorry I wasn't more clear. My question is not about carry concealed at all. I know that California does not honor TX CHL. My goal would only be to have the weapon in the hotel room at night. But it seems like the potential stop at the corporate headquarters on the final day would prevent me from taking it at all. Even though I could other wise legally transport it while in CA.

[The Annoyed Man]

An excellent resource on California gun laws is calguns.net.