never ceases to amaze me.... (gunbusters)

[seamusTX]

Subject: never ceases to amaze me.... (gunbusters)

Wasn't Taco memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3350Bell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; legally posted with 30:06 signs? This was a battle we needed to fight.

I don't know if any Taco Bells in Texas had valid 30.06 signs. Some had the verbiage on an 8½ X 11 piece of paper in English only.

However, Texas is the only state with this specific requirements. One other state requires the sign to be at least 8 inches or something like that. Otherwise, in all the states that recognized the right to concealed carry, any sign is valid.

That is why Taco Bell was criticized nationwide by far more people than Texas CHLs. You can still find hundreds of thousands of mentions of it on message boards and blogs.

- Jim

[terryg]

Our concern has to do with the clip below.

I worked for a company for six years. All the time I worked there, they had an outdated "gunbuster" sign next to the front door. A few months ago, during some building renovations, a new 30.06 sign was posted. The lettering size is too small to be compliant, but the language is now correct.

Before the new sign was put up, I know of at least two people who mentioned to management that the old sign was not enforceable. Both of them had recently taken their CHL class and were "gloating" about their new-found knowledge of handgun carry laws.

Yep, I also agree. I do not advocate telling them the sign in not enforceable. The OP indicated he avoided this topic as well.

[03Lightningrocks]

Subject: never ceases to amaze me.... (gun busters)

Wasn't Taco memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3350Bell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; legally posted with 30:06 signs? This was a battle we needed to fight.

I don't know if any Taco Bells in Texas had valid 30.06 signs. Some had the verbiage on an 8½ X 11 piece of paper in English only.

However, Texas is the only state with this specific requirements. One other state requires the sign to be at least 8 inches or something like that. Otherwise, in all the states that recognized the right to concealed carry, any sign is valid.

That is why Taco Bell was criticized nationwide by far more people than Texas CHLs. You can still find hundreds of thousands of mentions of it on message boards and blogs.

- Jim

I guess I see the two situations as not comparable. A gun buster sign is not really the same as a 30:06 sign with wrong sized letters. The 30:06 sign says to me they are trying to keep CHL's out but don't realize they are not withing the law. A gun buster sign says to me they don't want unlicensed carry. In either situation I would not educate them, but a gun buster sign does not concern me at all while the 30:06 sign that is not technically enforceable does give me pause. I guess I look at it as an indicator of intent.

[bigmoney]

Look at it like the bald guy in the Matrix movie. "Ignorance is Bliss". If a business is basing it on an old law, then it's a good thing they don't rely on their legal department or private attorney for advice. If it's a "feel good sign", good for them for trying to accomodate the feeling of safety for their employees. If they're just going to claim their know it all righteousness by name dropping someone they know, hey good for them, their ignorance still gives us the right and I'll just as well feel thankful for their lack of research or understanding. But I don't see any good coming from trying to educate anyone in the building about the sign. If it causes them to look into the law, they may head down to kinko's with an outline for a new sign they want printed, and then you just cost yourself the ablilty to legally carry there.

[seamusTX]

A gun buster sign is not really the same as a 30:06 sign with wrong sized letters. The 30:06 sign says to me they are trying to keep CHL's out but don't realize they are not withing the law. A gun buster sign says to me they don't want unlicensed carry.

I can't read the minds of people who put up gunbusters signs or unenforceable 30.06 signs.

I have noticed that I rarely see either on locally owned business. The gunbusters signs tend to be the result of some national corporate policy.

You can readily find internet lawyers saying that companies can relieve themselves of liability by posting no-guns signs and having no-weapons policies for their employees. Here's a detailed article that examines the issue from several angles: http://www.stradley.com/library/files/a ... owners.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is no evidence that such a defense ever worked or would work, but people do all kinds of useless mumbo-jumbo that they think has some legal effect.

- Jim

[zero4o3]

Look at it like the bald guy in the Matrix movie. "Ignorance is Bliss". If a business is basing it on an old law, then it's a good thing they don't rely on their legal department or private attorney for advice. If it's a "feel good sign", good for them for trying to accomodate the feeling of safety for their employees. If they're just going to claim their know it all righteousness by name dropping someone they know, hey good for them, their ignorance still gives us the right and I'll just as well feel thankful for their lack of research or understanding. But I don't see any good coming from trying to educate anyone in the building about the sign. If it causes them to look into the law, they may head down to kinko's with an outline for a new sign they want printed, and then you just cost yourself the ablilty to legally carry there.

in this case the person name dropping and claiming to know the law, had no power over the sign in question being posted. it would be like arguing with the cashier at walmart about one of their rules

[bigmoney]

Look at it like the bald guy in the Matrix movie. "Ignorance is Bliss". If a business is basing it on an old law, then it's a good thing they don't rely on their legal department or private attorney for advice. If it's a "feel good sign", good for them for trying to accomodate the feeling of safety for their employees. If they're just going to claim their know it all righteousness by name dropping someone they know, hey good for them, their ignorance still gives us the right and I'll just as well feel thankful for their lack of research or understanding. But I don't see any good coming from trying to educate anyone in the building about the sign. If it causes them to look into the law, they may head down to kinko's with an outline for a new sign they want printed, and then you just cost yourself the ablilty to legally carry there.

in this case the person name dropping and claiming to know the law, had no power over the sign in question being posted. it would be like arguing with the cashier at walmart about one of their rules

Forgot to include that I was refering to the OP.

[03Lightningrocks]

A gun buster sign is not really the same as a 30:06 sign with wrong sized letters. The 30:06 sign says to me they are trying to keep CHL's out but don't realize they are not withing the law. A gun buster sign says to me they don't want unlicensed carry.

I can't read the minds of people who put up gunbusters signs or unenforceable 30.06 signs.

I have noticed that I rarely see either on locally owned business. The gunbusters signs tend to be the result of some national corporate policy.

You can readily find internet lawyers saying that companies can relieve themselves of liability by posting no-guns signs and having no-weapons policies for their employees. Here's a detailed article that examines the issue from several angles: http://www.stradley.com/library/files/a ... owners.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is no evidence that such a defense ever worked or would work, but people do all kinds of useless mumbo-jumbo that they think has some legal effect.

- Jim

Yep... like ToysRus. They have a gunbuster sign at both locations I go to. I like to adjust my weapon through my shirt, as I walk by the sign. J/K..... I do usually reach to my side and verify my my shirt is not snagged and about to cause the place to call swat out.

[gus]

BabysRus has one aswell. Always thought it was funny in there with all the new moms! What bank were you at? UFCU is not posted in Austin.

[shorty-forty-fan]

You'd be surprised at what your wallet can say. Several years ago I ate at a Taco Cabana in East Houston with a 30.06 sign. I emailed C.S. and said my family and friends would not eat at this place again as long as it was posted. The response surprised me; it was NOT company policy to restrict legal carry! Some time later, we ate there again to notice that the sign was gone, and in its place was the generic TABC 'unlicensed carry' sign. Horray for our side! It was an easy victory, it's not like I, with the power of myself, changed Taco Cabana corporate policy, I just pointed out a chain store that did not follow it. But I'll take it.

I get a chuckle when I walk into the big-box-stores/corporate dwellings that have gunbuster signs. These companies no doubt have massive, massive legal teams working for them, and such a law change as the 30.06 posting shouldn't get past them. I almost think that they are, in fact, on our side. Think about it, at anytime they could post a 30.06 sign on a whim, but they don't; they leave it at "no weapons" or "no handguns" allowed. I really interpret it as the company enforcing private property laws that we (as customers) are not 'in control' of that private property and thus are not authorized to open carry handguns, long guns, bowie knives, etc. It's almost as good as "CHLs welcome" signs. That's my unwarranted two cents. And worth every penny.

And I'm one of those nit-pickers... I would just love to get in an argument with this kind of guy (the teller in the OP's story) and show him the error of his ways. But that wouldn't be very conducive to furthering our effort. Like others have commented, this conversation would not have happened to me, if it's not legal, I don't even bring it up. If the company wants to post some kind of sign like that, it's their responsibility to research the legality of such notice, and I'm not going to educate them in such an endeavor.

If that is one of your 'no-nos' for purchasing the services of an establishment, however, I highly encourage you to talk to management and vote with your wallet. And more power to you!