Medical Marijuana and Concealed Gun Permits?

[Slowplay]

Nicotine is the drug. You could argue, like the FDA has, that tobacco is a "device" that delivers the nicotine drug (and therefore, automatically would fall under FDA jurisdiction, as FDA argued).

However, the FDA wasn't able to get it's arms around (regulative authority) tobacco until Obama signed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act in 2009. This law was put through after the SCOTUS ruled FDA wasn't granted authority to regulate tobacco in a 2000 ruling (FDA v. Brown & Wllmsn Tobacco Corp). The FDA had to wait until the dems gained a supermajority in Congress and had the White House before they could get the 2009 law passed (granting them regulative authority over tobacco).

Are you trying to say someone that smokes cigarettes should mark "yes" on their form 4473, because the FDA NOW regulates tobacco?

[Ameer]

Someone brought up an interesting point earlier, is medical marijuana legal under federal law? I'm pretty sure no,

If a city council passes illegal alien sanctuary laws, that may stop local cops from acting on immigration status, but it doesn't repeal federal immigration laws, it doesn't prohibit La Migra from enforcing those laws, it doesn't give employers a pass on federal I-9 requirements, etc.

If a state legislature passes a law saying machine guns are legal, I don't think that will stop ATF from trying to enforce the federal law against someone who makes/converts full auto in his garage and sells at gun shows in the state.

[WildBill]

Here's an interesting twist. If Cynthia Willis loses her appeal to get her permit back, she plans to carry her pistol out in the open, which is, under Oregon law, perfectly legal.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financia ... CRVV80.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[03Lightningrocks]

Here's an interesting twist. If Cynthia Willis loses her appeal to get her permit back, she plans to carry her pistol out in the open, which is, under Oregon law, perfectly legal.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financia ... CRVV80.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah... I read that last night. Pretty funny isn't it. Nothing like "common sense" gun laws.

[jmoney]

Thats a good question, I've read many tests that have claimed 1 beer improves ones ability to perform logical proofs, however more than one would be detrimental...and I question the source of these studies regardless.

Now if you are arguing that marijuana can improve your cognitive function, I would be more than happy to start linking tests in medical journals that prove this to be outright wrong. It may be that you have temporary removed some issues such as anxiety, but at the same time most marijuana studies will conclude that long term use of marijuana for anxiety treatment is not a good idea, in fact anxiety would be worsened as the user was no longer under the influence, not to mention that many other psychological conditions are known to arise...same thing with beer anyways just not the same issues. But beer is not listed as a disqualifying "drug" for a handgun.

[WildBill]

Thats a good question, I've read many tests that have claimed 1 beer improves ones ability to perform logical proofs, however more than one would be detrimental...and I question the source of these studies regardless.

Now if you are arguing that marijuana can improve your cognitive function, I would be more than happy to start linking tests in medical journals that prove this to be outright wrong. It may be that you have temporary removed some issues such as anxiety, but at the same time most marijuana studies will conclude that long term use of marijuana for anxiety treatment is not a good idea, in fact anxiety would be worsened as the user was no longer under the influence, not to mention that many other psychological conditions are known to arise...same thing with beer anyways just not the same issues. But beer is not listed as a disqualifying "drug" for a handgun.

I guess I wasn't clear. I was speaking of nicotine or caffeine, not marijuana or beer. I think that I could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I function much better in the morning after I have a cup of coffee. In fact, I have witnesses who would swear to it.

[Ameer]

Here's an interesting twist. If Cynthia Willis loses her appeal to get her permit back, she plans to carry her pistol out in the open, which is, under Oregon law, perfectly legal.

What does she plan to do about all those signs that get posted everywhere anyone open carries?

[WildBill]

Here's an interesting twist. If Cynthia Willis loses her appeal to get her permit back, she plans to carry her pistol out in the open, which is, under Oregon law, perfectly legal.

What does she plan to do about all those signs that get posted everywhere anyone open carries?

She lives in Oregon. I don't know the legal requirement for signs in that state.

[b322da]

Oregon CHL is a State license
Medical MJ is a valid prescription in the same state.

State cannot take a valid license away if the only allegation is legal use of a prescription medicine.

That's my bet.,,., Any takers?

Interesting mental exercise.

One might see her with a valid state CHL having the right to carry a firearm, although anyone selling or giving her that firearm, knowing her to be a user, would commit a federal crime. If she answered the ATF 4473 questions truthfully, would not one selling her a firearm be on notice and thereby commit a federal crime?

Could she purchase the firearm, anyway, if she answered the ATF 4473 questions truthfully, or, alternatively, if she chose, be open to a multitude of grief by telling an untruth on the form?

Ultimately, of course, we may face head-on the question of whether a state can insulate one of its citizens/residents? from federal prosecution for the violation of a federal criminal statute. Both sides on this issue have been very circumspect, with the issue typically being joined as a matter of the constitutional competence of the feds to legislate in a particular area, rather than as a matter of federalism.

From there the mind boggles, and I am too old to bother thinking about it any further. I leave that to you young'uns.

Another full employment act for lawyers.... Ever wonder why legislatures, both state and federal, are full of lawyers??

Elmo

[WildBill]

Interesting mental exercise.

One might see her with a valid state CHL having the right to carry a firearm, although anyone selling or giving her that firearm, knowing her to be a user, would commit a federal crime. If she answered the ATF 4473 questions truthfully, would not one selling her a firearm be on notice and thereby commit a federal crime?

Could she purchase the firearm, anyway, if she answered the ATF 4473 questions truthfully, or, alternatively, if she chose, be open to a multitude of grief by telling an untruth on the form? Elmo

She already has a gun that she probably owned prior to getting her prescription.

[03Lightningrocks]

in fact anxiety would be worsened as the user was no longer under the influence,

That sounds like what happens when patients are subject to the legal poisons used to treat anxiety. The main diference is that the pharmacuetical companies aren't making a buck off of marijuana. Money talks and big pharma does not want a drug made legal that they can't slap a patent on and rip everyone off selling it to them. Studies done by the very thieves who stand to lose billions if marijuana is made legal make me laugh.

[hirundo82]

Interesting mental exercise.

One might see her with a valid state CHL having the right to carry a firearm, although anyone selling or giving her that firearm, knowing her to be a user, would commit a federal crime. If she answered the ATF 4473 questions truthfully, would not one selling her a firearm be on notice and thereby commit a federal crime?

Could she purchase the firearm, anyway, if she answered the ATF 4473 questions truthfully, or, alternatively, if she chose, be open to a multitude of grief by telling an untruth on the form? Elmo

She already has a gun that she probably owned prior to getting her prescription.

Even if she owned a gun before beginning medical use of marijuana (and the FBI has tried to deny via NICS purchase by people with a marijauna card), it is illegal to even possess a firearm if you are an unlawful user of a controlled substance:

18 USC §922
(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

As has been discussed previously on these boards, current Supreme Court precedent (arising from a medical marijuana case, ironically enough) is that virtually any activity can be said to affect interstate commerce.

[hirundo82]

Edited to remove off-topic post on marijuana prohibition.

[WildBill]

I am afraid that this thread is getting off track of the subject of gun permits and that discussing or promoting legalization will get this thread locked like this one:

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=38082&hilit=legali ... a&start=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[boba]

Revoking her permit doesn't deny her right to bear arms because she can open carry.

It's true she'll only have one option out of OC/CC but that's true for all CHL in Texas now, even the ones who aren't pot heads.