AZ: Marine killed in misdirected SWAT raid

[Oldgringo]

Here's a Tucson editorial on the issue:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article ... 03286.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What the police claim to have found are "guns, body armor, a piece of law enforcement clothing, [and] a portrait of Jesus Malverde, 'the narco saint,' under his bed."

Clearly it is not illegal to own firearms, and in Arizona it might be unusual not to. It is not illegal to own body armor, and many soldiers who were in Iraq or Afghanistam bought their own or got them as gifts from private parties. A "piece" of clothing could be almost anything. I see people wearing black T-shirts that say SWAT or FBI who most likely are not police officers.

Malverde is like a Mexican version of Robin Hood. (It's not even certain he was a real person.) Cheap portraits and statuettes of him are common in Mexican markets.

Also, gangsters rarely have clean criminal records or hold full-time jobs; and they usually have a pattern of ostentatious spending that is easy to detect.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the public is getting the full story here.

- Jim

Back in the 'old days', when Prohibition was the law of the land...

[chasfm11]

Here's a Tucson editorial on the issue:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article ... 03286.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What the police claim to have found are "guns, body armor, a piece of law enforcement clothing, [and] a portrait of Jesus Malverde, 'the narco saint,' under his bed."

Clearly it is not illegal to own firearms, and in Arizona it might be unusual not to. It is not illegal to own body armor, and many soldiers who were in Iraq or Afghanistam bought their own or got them as gifts from private parties. A "piece" of clothing could be almost anything. I see people wearing black T-shirts that say SWAT or FBI who most likely are not police officers.

Malverde is like a Mexican version of Robin Hood. (It's not even certain he was a real person.) Cheap portraits and statuettes of him are common in Mexican markets.

Also, gangsters rarely have clean criminal records or hold full-time jobs; and they usually have a pattern of ostentatious spending that is easy to detect.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the public is getting the full story here.

- Jim

Unfortunately, there is little to check and balance a corrupt police force. Like Las Vegas, this one seems to be practiced in presenting/obsuring the facts so that the results are justified. I suspect that a good lawyer could introduce the fact pattern in an entirely different matter than what has been leaked to the press in this case.

At the end of the day, it isn't much different than the medical profession. They are also supposed to be "self-policing" but rare does that process deal with repetitive malpractice.

[seamusTX]

Part of the problem, if the police are either outright corrupt or trying to cover up a mistake, is that they control the crime scene and the evidence.

I was thinking later, someone who could go through every item in any of our houses probably could come up with things that looked bad. Most of us have numerous weapons and the proverbial "cache" of thousands of rounds of ammunition. Some of us may have books on tactics by the likes of Gabe Suarez. I know I have Chairman Mao's little red book around somewhere ...

I do have to give the officers credit for not "finding" a kilo of cocaine or heroin. That would have clinched their story.

Also they did not shoot any dogs. Maybe there was no dog to shoot.

- Jim

[Bullwhip]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the public is getting the full story here.

- Jim

Back in the 'old days', when Prohibition was the law of the land...

Yeah, this war on drugs is working just about as good as the war on alcohol.

Funny thing this was a drug raid first, then it was a raid for home invaders. Warrant is all sealed up, but was for evidence and not arrest warrant. Wait what? Search warrant for "home invasions", not arrest warrants for people? Yeah, I wanna see what they swore to the judge to get that warrant when they didnt' even go after specific people.

[puma guy]

Story was picked up by Washington Post and reporter adds a few details. Some less than transparent actions going on here I fear. This link is from AOL.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/2 ... k3%7C66223

[seamusTX]

It seems I was right about one thing:

I asked ... the attorney representing Guerena's family, about the "portion of a law enforcement uniform" allegation. "They're trying to imply that he was dressing up as a police officer to force his way into private homes," Scileppi says. But when police serve a search warrant they leave behind a receipt what they've taken from the residence. According to Scileppi, the only item taken from Gurena's home that remotely fits that description was a U.S. Border Control cap -- which you can buy from any number of retail outlets...

It's also remarkable to see an AR-15 not referred to as a "high-powered assault weapon."

- Jim

[RttlTrap]

FWIW, this was the subject of today's Cato Institute Podcast

[gigag04]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the public is getting the full story here.

- Jim

Back in the 'old days', when Prohibition was the law of the land...

Yeah, this war on drugs is working just about as good as the war on alcohol.

Funny thing this was a drug raid first, then it was a raid for home invaders. Warrant is all sealed up, but was for evidence and not arrest warrant. Wait what? Search warrant for "home invasions", not arrest warrants for people? Yeah, I wanna see what they swore to the judge to get that warrant when they didnt' even go after specific people.

Huh?

[seamusTX]

What does "Huh?" mean?

- Jim

[KaiserB]

I have NEVER heard of any person being shot 60 times out of 71 attemore as part of a clearing drill.

This was intentional premeditated murder.

He must have known something that police didn't want shared or he might have had something that police wanted more.

It appears that there were about 70 shots all taken from the entry of the residence. (ref video)

http://www.officer.com/video/10277668/v ... an-in-raid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[McKnife]

Interesting video... everything happened slower than I expected.

Something spooked the officers causing them to spray rounds. This certainly complicates things... which is probably why most details are sealed.

Hope it doesn't get swept under the rug.

[philip964]

After watching the video, thank you for posting the link. I have the following comments:

So a judge signs a warrant to search your house, as someone has presented something that makes him believe there is probable cause to search your house. (I'm wondering what the judge is thinking right now. Maybe his name needs to be published. If he is proud of the job he is doing maybe he should come forward and say what he knows. All I know is I would be looking a lot harder at any search warrants I was signing after this.)

Is this what normally happens?

I usually don't come to the door right away as I am normally not expecting visitors. So if you don't come to the door in about what ten seconds and open the door, it is knocked down. And then five guys spray the house with automatic fire.

There were children in the house and innocent adults.

I did here what sounded like a car alarm. So there was some warning. I also didn't see Swat running around the side of the house pointing guns at the wife.

Seemed like a pretty nice little neighborhood.

I guess what I am asking is this standard operating procedure for serving a search warrant.

Or have I watched too much "Law and Order" and its really more like the videos of Iraq I have seen. Actually our soldiers seemed more careful of the civil rights of Iraqis.

After watching this and knowing what happened, I am now on the side of legalizing drugs, as it seems the drugs are much less of a worry to me now.

So they found a Border patrol cap, some guns (usually described as an arsenal of) and a bullet proof vest.

Very sad.

[gigag04]

What does "Huh?" mean?

- Jim

It's synonym for "what?"

[seamusTX]

You quoted about 100 words from three people. What part of it do you not understand?

- Jim

[KaiserB]

After watching the video, thank you for posting the link. I have the following comments:

So a judge signs a warrant to search your house, as someone has presented something that makes him believe there is probable cause to search your house. (I'm wondering what the judge is thinking right now. Maybe his name needs to be published. If he is proud of the job he is doing maybe he should come forward and say what he knows. All I know is I would be looking a lot harder at any search warrants I was signing after this.)

Is this what normally happens?

I usually don't come to the door right away as I am normally not expecting visitors. So if you don't come to the door in about what ten seconds and open the door, it is knocked down. And then five guys spray the house with automatic fire.

There were children in the house and innocent adults.

I did here what sounded like a car alarm. So there was some warning. I also didn't see Swat running around the side of the house pointing guns at the wife.

Seemed like a pretty nice little neighborhood.

I guess what I am asking is this standard operating procedure for serving a search warrant.

Or have I watched too much "Law and Order" and its really more like the videos of Iraq I have seen. Actually our soldiers seemed more careful of the civil rights of Iraqis.

After watching this and knowing what happened, I am now on the side of legalizing drugs, as it seems the drugs are much less of a worry to me now.

So they found a Border patrol cap, some guns (usually described as an arsenal of) and a bullet proof vest.

Very sad.

When you are on a team standing outside someones door and mentally expecting to execute a high-risk warrant, the door opens and someone is inside with a gun there is NO mental processing time the reaction is "Threat, shoot!" Being mentally amped up in preparation for a warrant service tends to trip up peoples natural reactions. I am sure the Sheriffs deputies were not expecting an innocent home owner to be inside with a gun in response to them breaking down the door.