Legal question, CHL in kayak an issue?

[mmmooretx]

Just curious if any laws are violated, marine laws may come in here, if you take your stainless pistol of choice in your kayak to dispatch a shark (assuming all safety issues are observed + wad cutters to reduce ricochet issues). Also possible State Park rules?
Thanks.

[Bulldog1911]

Depends on where you are at. If it's owned by the Army Core of engineers then it is illegal to possess any firearm period. CHL or not.

[mmmooretx]

I understand your point Bulldog, but federal law only would apply to federal/national parks rather than state parks, if that is what you meant on the park part of the question. My real head scratch-er is regarding maritime law and what happens while on open bodies of water (ocean, bays, water ways, etc.)
Thank you for your time and input.

[denwego]

I understand your point Bulldog, but federal law only would apply to federal/national parks rather than state parks, if that is what you meant on the park part of the question. My real head scratch-er is regarding maritime law and what happens while on open bodies of water (ocean, bays, water ways, etc.)
Thank you for your time and input.

Being married to a Navy officer finally becomes useful!

The short of it - if you're inside Texas but not on land directly controlled by the federals, it's just Texas law. State parks, wildlife preserves, etc., are all OK at the state level, so it's like any other place with a CHL. Federal water is somewhat OK; Nationa Parks and National Wildlife Areas are now OK outside of buildings with a CHL, but all federal buildings and some federally maintained waterways are not; Army Corps of Engineers comes to mind as the common example there. If you're not on ACoE land, you're almost always OK on the water.

Actual maritime law - if you're at sea, Texas law applies out to three nautical miles, so it'd be like anywhere else in Texas with a CHL (must be concealed, etc.). Beyond 3nm and up to 12nm, only federal law applies; so, no felons in possession, but you no longer need a CHL to carry, it doesn't need to be concealed, etc. From 12nm to 24nm, very limited federal jurisdiction still applies (environmental regulations, customs enforcement, immigration, importation of drugs and other contraband), but universal US criminal law becomes much diminished. Beyond 24nm, you're in international waters, so unless you're on a US flagged vessel, you can mostly forget about US law. If you're still on a US vessel, then federal maritime law applies and the Coast Guard still gets to monitor/board your vessel, but mere possession of a firearm isn't something to get bent out of shape about unless you're trying to import a gun from outside the US without the proper paperwork, or otherwise screwing with something you shouldn't/wouldn't be doing anyways.

IANAL, of course!

[Skiprr]

I understand your point Bulldog, but federal law only would apply to federal/national parks rather than state parks, if that is what you meant on the park part of the question.

Actually, no. If the land or water is owned by the Army Corps of Engineers, it falls under U.S. Title 36, Chapter III, Part 327, and it is against federal law to be in "possession of a loaded firearm, ammunition, loaded projectile firing device, bows and arrows, crossbows or other weapons." It doesn't matter whether or not the park is leased to or administrated by a state, county, or municipal entity. The COE ownership and Title 36 supersede state law, so a CHL is not a defense to prosecution if found carrying on COE land or waters.

For kayaking, you can search for areas owned by the COE here: http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/visitors/visitors.cfm. There are over 30 lakes/waterways owned by the COE in Texas, plus many square miles of state/county/city park areas. So it's always a good idea to make absolutely sure you aren't going onto one of those properties with a firearm on your person or in your vehicle.

[RPB]

Just curious if any laws are violated, marine laws may come in here, if you take your stainless pistol of choice in your kayak to dispatch a shark (assuming all safety issues are observed + wad cutters to reduce ricochet issues). Also possible State Park rules?
Thanks.

Kayak w/ Shark? State Park?
Sea Rim State Park?
As far as legality, The "National Seashore" (and Pelican Island National Wildlife Refuge/Padre Island National Seashore/McFaddin National Wildlife Refuge, Sabine Woods, and Texas Point National Wildlife Refuge) areas etc is covered under the National Parks areas,

Galveston USACE office has a little property, but none I know of that really affects kayak fishing much for sharks. Most of their stuff is like Addicks Dam etc near Katy If you have specific area in mind, I'll try to look it up.
I know of no State Parks on the sea shore owned by the ACOE
Galveston District ACOE http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Most kayak fishermen I know who go BTB (Beyond the Breakers) and get the larger sharks, will simply cut the line if safety is an issue. I know Mythman (Mike) has cut loose many, but has scars from a tail slap to his leg (You can hear him say "yeah he got my leg" )
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=RSrunXFZj-s[/youtube]
http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/foru ... ythman+leg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BTB http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/foru ... 5b4ccad753" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Several BTB kayakers are armed/CHLs ... but I don't know of any shooting sharks.
On water in a kayak, I'd probably carry shotshells like a 410. with birdshot, (for rattlesnakes/moccasins in a lake swimming up to/ trying to get in your kayak)to reduce and skipping across water/ricochet risks to other kayakers/swimmers//boats etc .... but still I'd only shoot more in a downwards pattern at a snake, or directly at a pirate/drug cartel group, with my "other" gun ... I know of no one shooting sharks, but most cut them loose if to large to land and let the hook rust away later.

I guess if you turtled and had to, a Glock 9mm with marine/maritime cups installed might work on a shark if your kayak doesn't blow away in the wind before a shark gets you ... I tether myself to the kayak except in surf....

Actual maritime law - if you're at sea, Texas law applies out to three nautical miles,

Some of the oil rigs they go out to, are 5 to 7 or so miles out ... but I think a couple are3 inside the 3-mile limit.

[AEA]

Army Core of engineers

Army Corps of Engineers

[RPB]

Army Core of engineers

Army Corps of Engineers

not "corpse" like Obama says twice in this video
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=bNr66HHhMjs[/youtube]

[Bulldog1911]

Army Core of engineers

Army Corps of Engineers

WOW, my bad. I do know better than that. Guess I will use the, I was in a hurry excuse????
Guess I am "one of those people" after all

[RPB]

I blame Firefox's built-in speel checkler

It constantly changes my "too" to "to" too and I don't even wear a tu-tu .... anymore.

[raptor]

I blame Firefox's built-in speel checkler

Et tu Brute?

[mmmooretx]

Most kayak fishermen I know who go BTB (Beyond the Breakers) and get the larger sharks, will simply cut the line if safety is an issue. I know Mythman (Mike) has cut loose many, but has scars from a tail slap to his leg (You can hear him say "yeah he got my leg" )

Wow lots of good data from this thread on laws! Thank you all for the inputs!

RPB, Yes I have been reviewing a lot at TKF in the BTB section and have seen some of MM's inputs, still a noob there. My only thought was under the fishing regulations you can take one shark back and I sure do not want it with me in a Sit On Top kayak! We used to fish for Blue and Thresher sharks in CA many moons ago and shark steaks are outstanding with 1/3 butter, 1/3 lemon or lime juice, and 1/3 Parmesan cheese on the grill. We cut them in 1" steaks and when the skin peels off they are done. I'm not sure what kind we have here and how they taste, but I will talk to the BTB group once I am ready to venture out.

Thanks again to all for your inputs.