Gunman Kills 5 in Utah Shopping Mall

MrDrummy · Post by **MrDrummy** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:08 am

It if wasn't for all those evil guns, we'd all be a lot safer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070213/ap_ ... h_shooting

Post by **carlson1** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:21 am

We can look for more and more of this. This is exactly why WE (CHL) should be practicing and watching.

Doug.38PR · Post by **Doug.38PR** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:24 am

and just think...that couldn't have happened in Katy Mills Mall here in Texas. After all, they have a 30.06 sign that keeps guns out

Maybe that Utah mall will learn and post a "no guns" sign there too.

glocklvr · Post by **glocklvr** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:51 am

Maybe that Utah mall will learn and post a "no guns" sign there too.[/quote]

I think that was part of the problem not enough good guys with guns there to stop the bad guy with a gun

jhutto · Post by **jhutto** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:26 am

Read : Sarcasm :

RPBrown · Post by **RPBrown** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:02 am

Doug.38PR wrote:and just think...that couldn't have happened in Katy Mills Mall here in Texas. After all, they have a 30.06 sign that keeps guns out

Maybe that Utah mall will learn and post a "no guns" sign there too.

Couldn't happen in PRNY or DC either. They don't allow guns in the cities.

Mithras61 · Post by **Mithras61** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:26 am

Thank god for gun laws because the gun laws made sure he couldn't buy that handgun he had and it's a good thing he couldn't buy a handgun because we all know that handguns are eeeeevil and if he had had a handgun who knows how many innocent people would have died at the hands of that eeeeevil handgun...

What's that? You mean people died from gunshot wounds and he didn't use the handgun? A shotgun, you say? Oh, uh... nevermind!

Just think about how many folks would get bent out of shape if the antis start trying to ban shotguns now. We all know it isn't the tool, it's the criminal that commits the crime, but the antis seem ever eager to blame the tool, so I'm sure you can expect to hear something about how we need to ban tactical assault shotguns or some such nonsense...

jbirds1210 · Post by **jbirds1210** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:42 am

Doug.38PR wrote:and just think...that couldn't have happened in Katy Mills Mall here in Texas. After all, they have a 30.06 sign that keeps guns out

Maybe that Utah mall will learn and post a "no guns" sign there too.

That sign at Katy mills does more than keep the legal guns out.....it keeps me out.

This is a horrible situation. I am very sad for the families of these people.
Jason

fadlan12 · Post by **fadlan12** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:01 am

Doug.38PR wrote:and just think...that couldn't have happened in Katy Mills Mall here in Texas. After all, they have a 30.06 sign that keeps guns out

Maybe that Utah mall will learn and post a "no guns" sign there too.

I was there last night and went in throught the #4 nieghborhood entrance, I did not see any signs, also several other places in Houston where I assumed they would be posted had no legal signage: Galleria, and womens medicla center OGA 7900 Fannin.

ghentry · Post by **ghentry** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:10 pm

fadlan12 wrote:
Doug.38PR wrote:and just think...that couldn't have happened in Katy Mills Mall here in Texas. After all, they have a 30.06 sign that keeps guns out

Maybe that Utah mall will learn and post a "no guns" sign there too.
I was there last night and went in throught the #4 nieghborhood entrance, I did not see any signs, also several other places in Houston where I assumed they would be posted had no legal signage: Galleria, and womens medicla center OGA 7900 Fannin.

Its definitely there at Katy Mills. When you open the first set of doors, look to your right (on the wall).

p99guy · Post by **p99guy** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:20 pm

oh , wait a minute...even if it was a shotgun, he used it to attack people
so that would make it an ASSAULT WEAPON if standard media conventions are applied.

See another good reason to take away anything anyone could use to harm another with( you got a license for that screwdriver, buddy?)

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:49 pm

Deseret News is reporting that the shooter was stopped by an off duty, out-of-town police officer from Ogden, who happened to be in the mall having dinner.

Kevin

Tote 9 · Post by **Tote 9** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:41 pm

carlson1 wrote:We can look for more and more of this. This is exactly why WE (CHL) should be practicing and watching.

And more CHLers should carry every where it's leagal to do so.
I know a lot of people here in my area that has a CHL but do
not carry on their person. If they go to the mall they leave their
gun in the car. What good does that do? None. I wonder how
many people in the Utah Mall could have legally been carrying a
gun. Might have been a lot different.

RKirby · Post by **RKirby** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:46 pm

Salt Lake Tribune is reporting that an off duty Ogden police officer who was having dinner with his wife is being credited with saving many lives.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5218733

SLC police chief praises Ogden cop
Officials says unnamed officer's quick actions prevented further casualties
By Nate Carlisle
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 02/13/2007 02:13:29 PM MST

Posted: 2:12 PM- Salt Lake City's top cop on Tuesday praised an off duty-police officer from Ogden, saying he prevented more people from being killed at Trolley Square on Monday. "There is no question that his quick actions saved people," said Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank. The name of the officer has not been released.
He was having dinner with his wife Monday when the shooting started, Burbank said.
Burbank said the officer, who was carrying a sidearm but did not have extra magazines or equipment, sought the source of the shots and found the gunman, 18-year-old Sulejmen Talovic, of Salt Lake City.
The officer exchanged fire with Talovic and contained him to one area of the mall, the chief said.
Salt Lake City police arrived at Trolley Square within three minutes of being dispatched. A SWAT team deployed and joined in the gun battle. It wasn't clear which police officers struck and killed Talovic.
Burbank said police were waiting for a determination from a medical examiner.
ncarlisle@sltrib.com

But what stands out to me is the statement that he was armed but had no extra magazine.

Sounds like he was a very lucky man that the SWAT team arrived before he went through his lone magazine. We might be reading quite a different story today otherwise.

On a side note, and I really hope this is not related, but according to my son the local police department was out in force rounding up students at his high school who were wearing black trench coats yesterday morning well before this shooting took place. This was after a PA announcement yesterday morning that trench coats were now banned from school property.

He told me this yesterday afternoon when I got home from work. I first heard of the mall shooting this morning. There was also an unusually heavy PD presence at school today. In addition, the SLC Tribune is also reporting that three Salem elementary schools have been locked down due to anonymous threats.

I don't own a tinfoil hat and am not much for conspiracy theories, but this is getting kind of weird.

I really hope it turns out to be nothing more than a coincidence.

edited to include SLC Tribune arcticle

Post by **Skiprr** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:08 pm

An update from AP and ABC:

Police Say Off-Duty Officer Prevented Larger Killing Spree in Rampage at Utah Shopping Mall

By PAUL FOY
The Associated Press

SALT LAKE CITY - An off-duty police officer having an early Valentine's Day dinner with his wife was credited Tuesday with helping stop a rampage in a crowded shopping mall by an 18-year-old gunman who shot five people to death before he was killed by police.

A day after the shooting, investigators struggled to figure out why a trench-coated Sulejmen Talovic opened fire on shoppers with a supremely calm look on his face.

The teenager wanted to "to kill a large number of people" and probably would have killed many more if not for the off-duty officer, Police Chief Chris Burbank said.

Ken Hammond, an off-duty officer from Ogden, north of Salt Lake City, jumped up from his seat at a restaurant after hearing gunfire and cornered the gunman, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived, Burbank said.

"There is no question that his quick actions saved the lives of numerous other people," the police chief said.

Police said it was not immediately clear who fired the shot that killed Talovic.

Talovic had a backpack full of ammunition, a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol, police said. Investigators knew little about Talovic, except than he lived in Salt Lake City with his mother, the police chief said. He was enrolled in numerous city schools before withdrawing in 2004, the school district said.

Talovic drove to the Trolley Square shopping center a century-old former trolley barn with winding hallways, brick floors and wrought-iron balconies, and immediately killed two people, followed by a third victim as he came through a door, Burbank said. Five other people were then shot in a gift shop, he said.

Four people who were wounded remained hospitalized Tuesday, two in critical condition, two in serious.

Outside the mall, candles and flowers were left as memorials to the victims, who were identified as Jeffrey Walker, 52, Vanessa Quinn, 29, Kirsten Hinkley, 15, Teresa Ellis, 29, and Brad Frantz, 24.

Hammond's boss, Ogden Police Chief Jon Greiner, said the state Senate wants to honor him.

"Thank goodness he was there," said Greiner, who is also a state senator. "You don't want to ever say it's good we were there and killed somebody, but it's probably good someone was there."

Accountant Jeff Barlow was on a date at a restaurant when he looked outside and saw the gunman firing from the hip.

"I thought it was some kind of joke some kind of movie or stunt," Barlow said. "I didn't believe it was happening. And then I saw a man go down in a courtyard. I realized this was serious. These are real bullets flying around."

His date, Stephanie Bronson, added: "Just crazy. Absolutely terrifying."

David Dean, who owns a greeting-card store at the mall, said three or four people died inside his store, which was packed with Valentine's Day shoppers.

--------------------

So it doesn't look like the shooter was enrolled in a school. And my hat's off to off-duty LEO Ken Hammond; he was the last line of defense for more innocent people who survived that day.