20" vs 16" AR

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PeteCamp

Re: 20" vs 16" AR

Post by PeteCamp »

Respectfully, I have several comments about what has already been said, especially about effectiveness of the 5.56 in combat. I see no need to discuss much because that is not the point of discussion here. Suffice to say that some careful research will shed interesting light on some aspects of combat involving individuals who have been drugged. You won't even have to go to official documents, just read Chris Kyle's book "American Sniper." Anyway, all that is a moot point. Careful choice of loads to match the barrel length makes the 5.56 effective at reasonable ranges.

There is no mass movement in the U.S. Military to replace the 5.56. Curiously, the .308 is not used as much because it lacks the extended range and power needed to be effective in current theaters of operation. The Mk-11 (SR-25 .308) and MK-12 (18" barrel 5.56) are used depending on situation. The .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua have proven to be the weapon of choice for ranges beyond the capability of the 5.56.

Having said all that, I had a Dissipator for a couple of years and I liked it BUT...I put a rifle length rail system on it and viola. I made a heavy barreled (read that varmit barrel weight) carbine that was so muzzle heavy that I eventually took the rails back off and sold it. Here is a nutshell summary of my experience in building / owning way too many AR's:

16" M4 type barrel - very handy size and weight, good looks, less expensive barrel, least accurate of the short barrel versions although some barrels are exceptional (my experience anyway)

16" Dissipator - fine if you like either plastic handguards or $400+ ultra light rifle length rail systems, shoots just like an M4

18" so called "mid length" systems - great compromise although quality 18" barrels are like buying gold

20" standard rifle - decently light but harder to manuver, classic visual appeal, better ballistics by a little bit, longer sight base gives better accuracy with iron sights, removable carry handle and scope gives a very versatile gun

20" National Match High Power (floating forend) heavy profile barrel (under the handguards), accuracy on par with the best Varmit guns - out to 600 yards, great with NM iron sights or removable carry handle and a scope for fun, way to heavy to carry around much

20" heavy barrel (so-called Varmit barrel) - wonderful accuracy with a scope (depending on how much money you put in the barrel) but weight and handiness are sacrificed, like the NM, it needs a rolling cart to carry it around

24" barrel - "Varmit" barrels are like the 16" gun barrels on the New Jersey, I saw no advantage over the 20" barrels

16" "Lightweight" barrel versions - better than the M4 weight wise (by a little), some barrels very accurate (some are not), great compromise if properly built

16" heavy barrel - great accuracy, you lose a little ballistically, better with a mid-power scope, front heavy especially with an M4 stock

16" 6.8 SPC II - great power using Silver State Armory ammo, more expensive, good accuracy but not intended to be a tack driver or long range shooter. The 6.5 Grendel is the long range tack driver, but you are locked to a proprietary cartridge. Take your pick. Never tried a .50 Beowulf or some of the other exotics so cannot comment but some exotics use the .308 size receiver

.308 versions - different animal as has been said, unique lower receiver needed, no interchanging with 5.56 uppers, the ones I've owned and shot were not anywhere near as accurate as a quality bolt gun and generally a bit more expensive - IMHO anyway (remember a great rifle shooting junk ammo is hardly better than a junk rifle shooting junk ammo!)

.50 BMG upper - what can I say? Not for the feint of heart or thin of wallet :shock:

There. Have I got you even more confused? Just build one of each. It's a sickness, don't cha know? :reddevil
Last edited by PeteCamp on Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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74novaman
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Re: 20" vs 16" AR

Post by 74novaman »

Wow, thanks for all of that! :cool:

Looking at the associated magazine and ammo costs for the specialty calibers like 6.5 grendel and 6.8spc etc....

I think I've decided upon a classic M4 build. No frills, no extra weight, no problems.

The extra money I was considering using for a fancy tricked out AR has been redirected to another project I"ll be sharing soon.... :cheers2:
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Skiprr
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Re: 20" vs 16" AR

Post by Skiprr »

PeteCamp wrote:.50 BMG upper: Not for the feint of heart or thin of wallet.
I'm gonna swipe that quotation someday. :mrgreen:
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OldCannon
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Re: 20" vs 16" AR

Post by OldCannon »

74novaman wrote:Wow, thanks for all of that! :cool:

Looking at the associated magazine and ammo costs for the specialty calibers like 6.5 grendel and 6.8spc etc....

I think I've decided upon a classic M4 build. No frills, no extra weight, no problems.

The extra money I was considering using for a fancy tricked out AR has been redirected to another project I"ll be sharing soon.... :cheers2:
Something to consider: With a New Frontiers Armory poly lower (these things are TOUGH http://lw15.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and a Palmetto State Armory upper, you can have a nice mid-length system for under $600.
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PeteCamp

Re: 20" vs 16" AR

Post by PeteCamp »

You're welcome. I'm glad my illness...er sickness...whatever, has been a benefit to someone. :lol:

One last word. M4 barrels used to be manufactured only to very high standards. Now everyone who makes barrels makes an "M4 profile." Don't buy the cheapest one. (Don't ask how I know all this.) Do a bit of asking and get a quality barrel. It will make you a happy camper for many years.

My name is Pete and I'm an ARholic. :???:
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OldCannon
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Re: 20" vs 16" AR

Post by OldCannon »

PeteCamp wrote: My name is Pete and I'm an ARholic. :???:
The AR-15 Family: Barbies (or Mr. Potatoheads) for Men!

(those of us a little older might prefer to think of it as the "Major Matt Mason for Men", although, to be honest, he didn't accessorize as well as Barbie "rlol" )
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.
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74novaman
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Re: 20" vs 16" AR

Post by 74novaman »

OldCannon wrote:
PeteCamp wrote: My name is Pete and I'm an ARholic. :???:
The AR-15 Family: Barbies (or Mr. Potatoheads) for Men!

(those of us a little older might prefer to think of it as the "Major Matt Mason for Men", although, to be honest, he didn't accessorize as well as Barbie "rlol" )
Maybe that is a good argument for my AK sickness.

You want a different AR style? Just buy a few new parts!

You want a different style AK? Sorry, hun, had to buy another one!! :evil2: :evil2:
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