RPB wrote:apostate wrote:RPB wrote:If he doesn't pass ... he doesn't pass.
That's the bottom line to me. If he can see well enough to successfully complete both the written and shooting proficiency examinations, I'm not sure what legal grounds DPS would have to deny his application. However, if an instructor doesn't want to pass a blind student, I suspect that could be easily avoided, especially if there's no "reasonable accommodation" clause in the CHL law.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, suppose he took the online class and got a nonresident license from Old Virginny. I don't see anything in the reciprocity law that would prohibit him from carrying a handgun in Texas.
I was already in bed and just thought of that, so I got up to mention that.
THAT's why I'd be sure to talk to the guy about ballistics. the small caliber get a .25 acp type over-penetration issues etc, etc anyway for my own conscience's sake. same as I'd inform him he'll in all likelihood fail before taking his money. I think people deserve a chance to pass or fail, if they fail, there's other options. (NOT that I'd suggest other options to him, if he's motivated, he can do his own research)
I once took a job at a plumbing Co. digging ditches because the guy didn't want to hire me, said I couldn't work a shovel with only 1 hand (I had all my life and previously dug holes at a landscaping company and buried pipe sprinkler systems etc) I agreed that I'd work 2 weeks and if he didn't like my work to fire me. I dug him the prettiest ditches for 2 weeks, he complimented me, I quit toe up the paycheck and took a job as Asst Mgr of a big box hardware store like Home Depot.
TAM,
If it were up to me, the guy would have a couple 2-shot Pepper blasters and Tasers ... but He needs to learn about over-penetration, and shoot/don't shoot communication with his wife being his eyes because I'd expect him to try to "overcome obstacles" such as not getting a Texas license. Overcoming (perceived) obstacles is just sumpin them stubborn handicapped people tend to do. Sure Martial Arts/ Knives and other weapons are good. The supposition hat the blind does not know that another person is behind the target though is an assumption.
LOL @ myself resorting to comic book logic ...Daredevil, the blind superhero ...If one can accept that a blind person "sees" objects by how sound vibrates off them, and another can throw a straightened paper clip as a deadly weapon.
Like the blind "Master" in Kung Fu series With David Carradine always baffled me, ... I mean I couldn't do what those guys do blindfolded
But seriously, why couldn't a blind person sense, hear, or know somehow that another person was behind the target without using his eyes? How do they know a car is behind the bus when crossing a street? I dunno. I would ask a blind concert guitarist I thought was cute back in the 70s, but she wasn't interested in me. She lived alone and got around downtown Houston and Montrose just fine to play her various gigs, grocery shop etc, though she couldn't drive or see the frets or strings on the guitar.
She could not see one inch in front of her face. I dunno how she found her guitar every day, maybe she hummed and heard the wood resonate
I've been a guitar player for 48 years. I am
well aware of what it takes to play a guitar, and total blindness is no obstacle. I also know enough about both the guitar and CHL to say that this is not even a valid comparison.
The fact of the matter is that this is a lose/lose situation. If the instructor (our OP, who I note has only posted three times since [strike]trolling[/strike] joining) goes ahead and teaches the blind person the course, he opens himself to potential liabilities from the state
and from the family of the innocent bystander shot dead by the blind man during a self-defense shooting.
The blind man faces potential manslaughter charges for shooting innocent people any time he uses his gun in legitimate self-defense.
And then there is the innocent bystander who doesn't get to go home to his family that night.
Then, there is the cop who understands the blind man's need to defend himself in a righteous shooting but who has to arrest the blind man on manslaughter charges for the death of an innnocent bystander. Etc., etc., etc.
The whole thing IS a can of worms. I know what
I would do if
I were the instructor, but the law doesn't currently state with any specificity that you can't offer a blind person a CHL course. So if you, as the instructor, refuse to instruct a blind person, then you may be guilty of violating some kind of federal anti-discrimination law. (Please note that I am using the term "blind" to mean "completely blind." If a person can distinguish shapes in the background, moving or not, then I think that is sufficient to make an informed shoot/don't shoot decision.)
Balanced against that is talk, from myself as well, of detering a citizen from exercising his fundamental
right to keep and bear arms. That is a losing proposition as well. That person does have an absolute and enumerated right to keep and bear arms.
At what point has
wisdom entered this conversation? RPB, I appreciate the stubborness you refer to, and the desire to prove to the (for lack of a better term) "able-bodied" that you are not limited by your physical handicaps; and I think that is an admirable quality.........if tempered by wisdom. Stubborness for its own sake without a legitimate goal is not a good justification for anything. "I'll show
you" has been the cause of many more disasters in history than it has victories. There has to be a legitimate goal of that stubborness, or else it is just stupidity.
I try to let wisdom be the overriding arbiter of my own behavior....not always with success, but at least I have that
standard I try to live up to. Wisdom dictates that I don't drink and drive. Wisdom dictates that I don't spend money I don't have. Wisdom dictates that I stay out of rough neighborhoods and high-crime areas to the degree that it is possible to do so. Wisdom dictates that I keep my savings in banks and not in my mattress. Wisdom
also dictates that I don't give driving lessons to the blind.
To me, and this is just my opinion, but
wisdom dictates that if a blind person were to ask me to teach them a CHL class, I would try to talk them out of it
AND offer them what I think is a better alternative: martial arts training with an emphasis on using a knife. If they insisted on the CHL, then I would likely refuse. Why? Because at the end of the day,
I have to live with the consequences of
my actions. If a blind person wanted me to teach them how to
shoot, I would do that in a heartbeat. If a blind person wanted the experience of
assisted hunting, I would support that (although I am in no position to provide such a service myself). If a blind person wanted to have a gun for self-defense use inside of their home, I would support that and be happy to help them make a good selection of firearm.
But......I would categorically refuse to enable a blind person to
pass a CHL course and carry a gun on the street.....because my wife and son and I might have to be walking down that same street on the day the blind man needs to shoot his gun in self-defense. And by the way, whatever the legal arguments, I would not in fact be stepping on his rights by doing so, as he is certainly free to try and pursue it with someone else. But I'm not going to be part of that because I think it is dumb and extremely unwise.
Also, I think that much of this is moot. I suspect that the person's blindness would turn up during the DPS background check and he would be denied his CHL anyway......AND he would be out the $140 to the state plus whatever the instructor charged him. So this whole thing is an exercise in futility.
Now, I'm not going to be one bit surprised to see this thread show up on the Brady Bunch site with the headline "CRAZY GUN NUTS ADVOCATE BLIND PEOPLE CARRY GUNS," while they try to get legislation through Congress limiting the rights of the blind.
Some things are just better left alone. This is one of them. The OP, "comfortinarms," has posted exactly three times since joining. All three posts are in this thread, and he hasn't posted at all since the day he joined, two days ago. He has shown no interest in any other topics on this board. Hopefully he will come back and prove to be an active and contributing member of this board. If he doesn't, then I think we can take this entire thread as a trolling exercise. I'm done contributing to it.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
#TINVOWOOT
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