Salesman changed his mind?

RPBrown · Post by **RPBrown** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:08 am

Last night we were eating dinner when the doorbell rang. This, as usual, started the dogs barking. But before I could get to the door, I heard the storm door open. At this piont the dogs went nuts.
I looked through the peep hole and saw a young man standing with my storm door wide open and a clipboard in his hand. I unholstered my 1911 as I opened the door. As he started to give his sales pitch, he noticed my weapon in hand. I then told him how lucky he was that he wasn't shot. I informed him its not a good idea toopen someone's door without permission. Could be taken as B & E with probable cause.
Funny thing though. He never finished his pitch and I don't even know what he was selling. But I bet he thinks twice before opening a screen door again.

AG-EE · Post by **AG-EE** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:40 am

As much as I hate salesmen coming to my home without me asking, I think telling him that was a little over the top. Opening your actual front door could be construed as B&E, but not the outer screen door IMO.

I would say you are lucky you didn't shoot him, because if you would have done so with the reasoning you said above, you would be in a nice little one-bedroom home with decorative iron around it.

gigag04 · Post by **gigag04** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:32 am

I like the story!

RPBrown · Post by **RPBrown** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:42 am

I had no intentions of shooting him.

However, someone starting to open even a screen door could have been shot. Who's to say his next move wasn't to try to open the main door. Or what if the main door was open already?

I was just warning him of what someone else could or might have done.

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:50 am

We are in the same situation...

I put up this little sign that says "NO SOLICITING", right up at nominal eye level for most sales types to see and read...

It doesn't work with most of them...

So instead of me allowing them to see any weapon, I just open the door, smile, point to the sign, and slam my door...(That's about as forceful as I can be)...

My storm door is very out of balance, and makes a tremendous amount of noise with the slightest aggitation...I, and the roaming alarm systems in our home, are very much in tune with that front door...

Case in point:

We had a scruffy looking guy one time come to the door a few years ago, he opened the storm door, and knocked...I was sitting on the couch, and didn't bother to get up...Second knock and "Wife Unit" decided to check it out...

Setup:

It was 9:30pm on a Friday night...

Sales Pitch:

"Can I paint your address number on the curb for you, for $20???"

Reaction:

"No thank you, good night..." (point to the sign)

Re-Reaction:

"Well, I could do it for $15?"

Re-Re-Action:

"No thank you." (Close the door)

I got up to check the guy out finally through the peep hole, and he stood there for about a minute looking all around...

He finally headed up the main street towards the corner "stop 'n rob" about two blocks down...He didn;t go to any other houses in for what I could see...

So I got up, hopped in the truck...Followed him discretely down the street to where he had his vehicle parked...He drove around for a little while not stopping around in our nieghborhood...hmmmmm???

So I wrote the tag number down...Went home after he left the area...Ran the tag on "Publicdata.com", crossed the registered owner with the available criminal database...And bingo...

The guy had quite a sheet on him...He did fit the description and was out on the street after serving time for various check writing crimes, and a few B&E's...

I went back and printed the sheets out on him and handed them to my wife, and said to her...

"And you opened the door for this guy?"

Lesson learned I suppose...

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:59 am

Right above our doorbell is a little sign that says "No Solicitors, No Door Hangers, No Trespassing".

Last year, there was a hippie-type and his girl friend standing behind him who made the mistake when I pointed to the sign of replying "Yes, I can read. I've even got a college degree."

Let's just say he got "zumboed" well before the new verb was invented and an inviation to the grey bar hotel. The Wife said I was very rude. But I bet the young man thinks twice before he makes that type of reply again.

hi-power · Post by **hi-power** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:17 am

My mother's office has a "No Soliciting" sign on the door as you go in.

After turning away a few salespeople with a "No thanks", she finally asked one person, "Did you not see the sign on the door that says No Soliciting?"

He said, (seriously) "Oh, is that what I'm doing?"

Mike1951 · Post by **Mike1951** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:26 am

I would have preferred to just answer the door with your holstered gun showing. It likely would have had almost the same effect, without any threat, implied or othrwise.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:08 pm

I think it was over the top to open the door with gun in hand. If you perceived a real threat, 'DON'T OPEN THE DOOR". If you did not perceive a threat then there was no need to make your point with gun in hand. Even opening the door with gun in hand but NOT visible to the guy would be preferable.

Again, I think that we are way too quick to go to guns.

And there is NO B&E in Texas. We have Burglary, that's it. Burglary requires that the person enter the residence for the purpose of committing a felony, theft or assault. A guy opening your unlocked storm door does not fit that bill.

However, someone starting to open even a screen door could have been shot. Who's to say his next move wasn't to try to open the main door. Or what if the main door was open already?

There is no justification in the world for shooting a person opening your storm door. You can't use deadly force based on 'who knows what his next move might have been". If the main door was open and he attempted to open and enter your storm door, that is different.

Telling him that he is lucky he was not shot is tantamount to a threat, which IS illegal.

I posted here about an after hour beating on my front door a year or so ago. It was after 2100, and the knock was one of those "answer the door NOW" knocks. I grabbed a carbine before I opened the door to 4 teenagers, but I barely cracked it and was short with the people and closed and locked the door.

I then notified the police of the suspicious activity.

But, and I guess this was your point, you taught him a lesson.

[/quote]

j1132s · Post by **j1132s** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:26 pm

The thought of door to door sales people makes me miss having a peephole on my front door. In the last couple of houses, (the first one we didn't know, the second one we bought used so didn't have much choice) our front doors have stained glass panels. It is truely difficult to pretent nobody's home when they see you approach the door.

Some of the sales people are very persistent and even aggressive (I can't imagine how they can sell products behaving like that). However, both my wife and I don't open the door for them, and I think we got a few dings on our car (parked in the driveway) because of it.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:01 pm

Most cities and towns have ordinances requiring solicitors to be registered with the city. Most door-to-door types are not registered, from my experience.

I call our non-emergency number and the police always come out. I imagine in larger towns they may not.

nitrogen · Post by **nitrogen** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:45 pm

I usually ask to see their vendors permit (Not sure if my town even requires one) and that usually sends them on their way.

My wife really hates door to door solicitors, and sometimes gets really confrontational with them (especially the high pressure magazine scammers)

I worry about her when she does that

ScubaSigGuy · Post by **ScubaSigGuy** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:16 pm

In my opinion this situation could have been handled in a friendlier manner without showing the gun. Maybe it's OK to be rude without the gun shown? IMHO the combination of the two, with the near threatening comment is something that CHL holder or gun owner should try to avoid. Low profile is the whole point, right? Why widen the rift between us and the anti's or the undecided (as this guy may have been)

It is likely that not one of us here likes door to door salesman, but that's not a reason to brandish a firearm. If the guy is up to no good (I have heard of people trying to open front doors in broad daylight just to see if they can gain easy access) then have you not just made yourself a greater target since he may now suspect that you have several firearms home alone during the day?

Answering the door with a firemarm in hand hand just seems to be heading down the wrong path. I agree with TXINVESTIGATOR that it is far better to distance yourself if there is a percived threat

Anyway this is just my opinion for what it's worth.

RPBrown · Post by **RPBrown** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:26 pm

txinvestigator wrote:

Telling him that he is lucky he was not shot is tantamount to a threat, which IS illegal.

[/quote]

Not sure how you figure that I threatened him. In my opinion, he is lucky that he has not been shot. I was just giving him advise as not to be opening someones door, screen, storm, or otherwise. Mine or anyone elses.

I would hope he learned from this before someone thinks he is breaking in and does shoot him.

As far as a percieved threat, doorbell only, it stays holstered. Opening storm door it gets unholstered. It may not have appeared to be a threat, but I was not going to give up the extra time to unholster if he started in through the front door.

Not one time was I rude to the young man. Just gave him some advise. He even thanked me for the warning.

Would I do anything differantly? Maybe, maybe not. I am not paranoid, but I am prepaired and will remain so.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:49 pm

nitrogen wrote:I usually ask to see their vendors permit (Not sure if my town even requires one) and that usually sends them on their way.

My wife really hates door to door solicitors, and sometimes gets really confrontational with them (especially the high pressure magazine scammers)

I worry about her when she does that

I'm in Wylie too. We do!

Sec. 82-2. Unlawful solicitation and handbill distribution.
(a) Solicitation permit required. No person, directly or through an agent, shall canvass or solicit in person from house to house in the city to sell or attempt to sell goods, merchandise, wares, services or anything of value or to take or attempt to take orders for the future delivery of goods, merchandise, wares, or any personal property of any nature whatsoever, or take or attempt to take orders for services to be furnished or performed in the future, without first having a written permit therefor, unless the solicitation is for charitable purposes.
(b) Handbill distribution permit required. It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or through an agent or employee to distribute or cause to be distributed, deposited, placed, thrown, cast, scattered, handed out or circulated any handbill in or upon any premises within the corporate limits of the city without first having obtained a written permit for such distribution.
(c) Certificate of registration required. It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or through an agent or employee, to solicit funds for charitable purposes within the corporate limits of the city without first having obtained a certificate of registration for such solicitation. It shall further be unlawful for any person, as the agent or employee of another, to solicit funds for charitable purposes within the corporate limits of the city unless his principal or employer has received a certificate of registration.
(d) Prohibited hours. It shall be unlawful to solicit funds or distribute handbills, political handbills or religious handbills after 7:00 p.m. and before 9:00 a.m.

You can find them all here http://www.municode.com/resources/gatew ... 905&sid=43