Surrendered weapon after Motor Vehicle Accident

[pbwalker]

I think it's time to close this thread.........

[RoyGBiv]

Ash... Did it ever occur to you that sometimes people omit (accidentally or on purpose) relevant facts from online posts. Facts that may not seem relevant to the writer. When people here say "unless some fact is not known" they are referring specifically to the fact that all they have been given to go on is what is written in your post, and they are acknowledging that there may be relevant facts not yet in evidence.

If you cannot understand the difference between an "accusation" and a "caveat" in a written response, you should take some time to learn before you fly off the handle like that.

Simmer down... apologize to the people you yelled at ... relax..
Given the facts as you have told them to us, there's not a single person here who thinks you're being treated fairly or legally.

[jimlongley]

Few rose up to protest when Hitler went after the Gypsies, the Jews and the others

Really? Somewhere between 2.5 to 4 million allied troops in Europe during WWII, and that's "few"??

Only after Hitler had remilitarized the rhineland, annexed austria, annexed czechoslovakia, and then invaded poland. The British and French didn't do anything until after Poland was gobbled up, and even then their response was relatively weak until they realized they might be next. The Soviets did nothing until they were invaded and realized their divide European scheme wasn't going to be honoured, and we stood on the sideline until after the Soviets did most of the work. Which may very well be a good thing. We didn't have our superman cape then, and that might not have been so bad.

I know it's a tangent, but I couldn't resist. No one really wanted to fight the Nazis, and can you blame them? Atrocities aside, those guys were bad dudes

Well, it sounds like you know a heck of a lot more about it than I. I just tried to lookup online the total European Allied response. On the other hand, I still submit that we (and the other allies) *did* respond. Late, maybe, but respond we did. And yes, this is off-topic.

And reasons we responded had little to do with the Gypsies or Jews. If the Japanese hadn't provided Roosevelt with a convenient excuse, another year might have gone by before we responded.

Back toward topic, I still don't see the cop's authority to do more than hold the gun, if he even had the authority to do that. Here's a little example: Suppose our OP just happens to be a bad guy who has gotten away with his nefarious stuff so well that he even obtained a CHL. Now the cops test his gun, and not only find out it was stolen in NY City, but that it was used in a crime that they have been trying to solve with little success, and here is the crime gun right in their hands. Would they be able to prosecute the OP? Wouldn't that be, since he voluntarily surrendered the gun as a result of the MVA, a violation of 5th Amendment strictures against self incrimination? And isn't holding the gun now a violation of seizure without due process?

[PeteCamp]

Good points Jim. Not to be offering excuses for El Paso PD if they are in the wrong, but El Paso is just (literally) a stone's throw away from the most violent city on earth. The epidemic of violence spills over now and then. I can only imagine the stress the LEO's and their families are going through. And we all know what stress does to folks. If the OP knows the weapon was not used in any criminal activity (bought new) then perhaps just a call or visit to the chief of police might bring positive results. Otherwise the writ might be in order after a certain time period. Losing your temper with them will probably not help. Just my opinion.

[03Lightningrocks]

I have a feeling the OP was driving a yellow car. Everyone knows that yellow cars are considered inferior in Texas and with good reason. Just for the record, I would probably try to avoid confessing if I were driving a yellow car.

My real suspicion is that the OP is a good ole fashioned troll. I can think of no other explanation for his accusations of racism when not one post even hinted at such a ridiculous thing. If I am wrong, my apologies, but I am always a bit suspicious of folks who drive yellow cars.

I also have my suspicions any time a poster registers and on the same day makes a controversial post and then follows up with an argumentative tone and makes no other posts anywhere on the forum.

[AEA]

[PeteCamp]

I have a feeling the OP was driving a yellow car. Everyone knows that yellow cars are considered inferior in Texas and with good reason. Just for the record, I would probably try to avoid confessing if I were driving a yellow car.

Yellow car? Yellow car? As in a taxi? Or one of those little things that are terrified of 3500 dually's?

You may be right.

[Longshot38]

I don't understand why the weapon was seized by LE in the first place. If you were transported to the hospital via ambulance I understand being disarmed. Most EMS providers have company policies involving firearms and will not transport armed patients (this includes LEOs). But other arrangements can be made. I have seen LEO's take weapons off my patients and then return the weapon to his residence or found other ways to secure and return weapons of CHL holders.

[Jim Beaux]

I don't understand why the weapon was seized by LE in the first place. If you were transported to the hospital via ambulance I understand being disarmed. Most EMS providers have company policies involving firearms and will not transport armed patients (this includes LEOs). But other arrangements can be made. I have seen LEO's take weapons off my patients and then return the weapon to his residence or found other ways to secure and return weapons of CHL holders.

Application of the law is often dependent on the discretion of the LEO. Offend one and you will get a different application then if you are respectful. Maybe the op ruffled a feather or two at the site of the mva?

[stevie_d_64]

Wow, what an exciting thread...

Ash...Did you get your gun back???

And how about a show of hands...How many of us have had our gun(s) confiscated, because someone else believed they committed a crime requiring a Criminal Background check??? I didn't know guns committed crimes themselves???

Talk about guilty before proven innocent...Our guns should be outraged...

All kidding aside, I hope Ash learned that you do not "offer" anything to Law Enforcement officers unless they ask...

What's your name??? "Stevie-D, sir..."

What's your Quest??? "To Seek the Holy Grail!"

What's your favorite color??? _________hmmmmmm...

I've been in two MVA's since 1996 when I first got the plastic...

Both times no serious injuries or assumptions of guilt on my part or the gun I was carrying came out in the initial investigation...The gun stayed holstered on my hip after I told an officer, not the paramedics or other first responders...Law Enforcement ONLY!!! and that was accomplished without saying a word about the gun...I handed him my ID and CHL, insurance etc etc etc...

One time the officer didn;t even say anything about it, and the other time the officer asked where it was...Then both times it became a moot point, a non-issue...

Because???

I didn't make it an issue...I didn't go around telling every person working the accident that I had a gun!!!

Now, I can see from the tone in Ash's posts that he probably was a bit excited, probably a little shaken up...I can dig it man...I've seen the coolest characters out there get a case of the blabber lips and its off to the races...Its a physiological release (stress), happens all the time...You thought you were doing the right thing, and I think you were...And the Law Enforcement officer that said he'd take care of the weapon, took advantage of that trust, and took your property for a ride...

I would not have to bring in legal help at first...I would have requested that the property be returned to you on the spot...But before I did do that I would have contacted my legally retained representation on gun issues before I did go down to collect it...Just to make sure if they wanted to join (or not) the party at that time...

"I'll call you back if I have any trouble recovering my personal property..." [click]

There is a lesson to be learned from everyones experience, and there are those of us who have had similar experiences and that can relate to new folks looking for support, empathy, and little lite humor to lighten the stress...This was probably not very easy for someone to admit too...And it's kinda embarrasing...But hey, we are all human...

I think it has always been prudent on our part to have on retainer some sort of specialized legal help to call when anything regarding our ownership, possession and usage of a firearm for lawful self-defensive purposes is needed...

Some folks have that state-wide CHLPP service (IIRC), I have a local lawfirm in Webster, Texas on retainer...The "card" they give you says it all...And if any law enforcement officer can't respect that...Well, they stand the chance to get an education real quick...Nothing is assured, or written in stone...We carry a firearm for lawful purposes...Which when used may very well result in a homicide...There is no getting around that, we all know the score...Its best to be ahead before you get out on the field...

Good Luck Ash...Keep us posted on your progress...

[03Lightningrocks]

.........I've been in two MVA's since 1996 when I first got the plastic...

Wow!!! You may be good at CHLing.....but you really stink at that driving thing!



Just kidding. I saw you were from Houston and I have visited there. I am amazed you don't average two a year. You people in Houston drive like nuts!!! I don't get scared easy but driving in Houston requires a prescription for xanax!

[Jim Beaux]

This is from a 2007 article but it illustrates the mindset of the police depts in Houston & DFW.

<<According to a study by Scott Henson, with the Texas Criminal Justice Coalition, 13 county or district attorneys—including those in Houston and Fort Worth—instructed officers to quiz motorists found in possession of weapons about their travel plans or simply arrest them, seize the weapon and let the prosecutors sort it out. >>

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-10-2 ... ll-travel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[wgoforth]

This is from a 2007 article but it illustrates the mindset of the police depts in Houston & DFW.

<<According to a study by Scott Henson, with the Texas Criminal Justice Coalition, 13 county or district attorneys—including those in Houston and Fort Worth—instructed officers to quiz motorists found in possession of weapons about their travel plans or simply arrest them, seize the weapon and let the prosecutors sort it out. >>

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-10-2 ... ll-travel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct.... and thanks for sourcing it. That's what I was told by CHLPP as to why they said they have to get 3-4 members guns back a month from these areas.

[03Lightningrocks]

This is from a 2007 article but it illustrates the mindset of the police depts in Houston & DFW.

<<According to a study by Scott Henson, with the Texas Criminal Justice Coalition, 13 county or district attorneys—including those in Houston and Fort Worth—instructed officers to quiz motorists found in possession of weapons about their travel plans or simply arrest them, seize the weapon and let the prosecutors sort it out. >>

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-10-2 ... ll-travel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct.... and thanks for sourcing it. That's what I was told by CHLPP as to why they said they have to get 3-4 members guns back a month from these areas.

When all else fails, use the "drug dealer" hammer! It is hard to believe a person can be so ignorant as to say, "we catch a drug dealer with a gun and have to let him go"!!! Good lord almighty. Do I even have to state the obvious???

It just hit me, that article is five years old and was written just after the new MPA took place. Hopefully the people they spoke with in that article have since been educated.

[wgoforth]

This is from a 2007 article but it illustrates the mindset of the police depts in Houston & DFW.

<<According to a study by Scott Henson, with the Texas Criminal Justice Coalition, 13 county or district attorneys—including those in Houston and Fort Worth—instructed officers to quiz motorists found in possession of weapons about their travel plans or simply arrest them, seize the weapon and let the prosecutors sort it out. >>

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-10-2 ... ll-travel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct.... and thanks for sourcing it. That's what I was told by CHLPP as to why they said they have to get 3-4 members guns back a month from these areas.

When all else fails, use the "drug dealer" hammer! It is hard to believe a person can be so ignorant as to say, "we catch a drug dealer with a gun and have to let him go"!!! Good lord almighty. Do I even have to state the obvious???

It just hit me, that article is five years old and was written just after the new MVP act took place. Hopefully the people they spoke with in that article have since been educated.

If I was being told correctly a couple of months ago, then apparently they haven't! Not to mention a local police chief recently (this week) said on the radio you cannot carry a gun in your car w/o having a CHL unless you have ammo out and separated...