Nikon or Bushnell?

[Stupid]

Thank you guys so much for your great advices.

I kind of narrowed it down to these two:

Nikon Monarch Matte BDC 6.5-20x44 6576
Bushnell 4-16 x 40mm 42-4164M

The only difference seems to be the "exit pupil". The Nikon only has 2.2 mm while Bushnell has 10@4x and 25@16x (are these numbers even REAL?)

So, ignore the magnification, which one is better? Prices are the same ($350).

[Stupid]

OK, add this one too. Better eye relief. How come Leupold has no data on "exit pupil"?

Leupold 4-12x40 VX-II Riflescope LEU56950. $50 more.

[G.C.Montgomery]

Leupold still gets my vote of the choices mentioned with Leupold's warranty being the primary selling point.

While I love Nikon's SLR cameras and lenses, I know nothing about their rifle scopes. I am told Nikon makes very good rifle scopes though and they are considered the best of the Japanese rifle scopes.

I've never used Bushnell rifle scopes but I've never been impressed with those that I've handled in shops or gunshows. Bushnell scopes always seem be longer for any given magnification than similar scopes from other manufacturers. Optical clarity has never been a strong suit of Bushnell scopes that I've handled. Also, a friend told me he'd sworn Bushnell scopes off after finding the adjustments were not repeatable. He'd work up dope one week only to find those adjustments were useless the next time he shot the rifle.

[KBCraig]

How come Leupold has no data on "exit pupil"?

Exit pupil is the diameter of the objective, divided by the magnification number. It's easy to do the math yourself.

[HankB]

Bushnell, like most makers, has several lines of 'scopes. I'd stay away from their cheapest.

Despite Nikon's good reputation in camera lenses, I have reservations about Nikon sport optics . . . a few years back, cemented doublets in their binoculars had a tendency to separate, due to poor (or poorly cured) optical adhesive. I don't know if these problems occur in their 'scopes, but if one part of their product line has problems, my inclination would be to avoid that brand entirely.

I like Leupold 'scopes . . . in all my years going to the range (and several years of serving as range safety officer at a major gun club during sight-in days before deer season) I've seen exactly two damaged Leupold 'scopes, and one of those was done-in by a severe whack to the objective bell.

Don't try to cheap out . . . someone once said that the disappointment of an inferior product lingers long after the price savings are forgotten . . .

On Exit Pupils

Technically, the exit pupil of an optical system is the image of the aperture stop as viewed from image space.

For a riflescope, as KBCraig wrote, the exit pupil can be computed by dividing the objective diameter by the magnification.

Why is exit pupil important?

Consider . . . the dark-adapted human eye's pupil is about 7mm in diameter, so in twilight conditions, 'scope exit pupils larger than that will not make a 'scope look any "brighter" but a smaller 'scope exit pupil means your eye's pupil is under used, so what you're looking at will look dimmer than it needs to.

In daylight, your eye's pupil may only be 3mm . . . a 'scope exit pupil larger than that won't make things look any brighter.

In daylight conditions, aside from brightness, a large exit pupil makes your eye position a bit less critical - you can position your 3mm eye pupil anywhere within, say, a 7mm exit pupil and still have a full view of the image.

[Stupid]

Is the eye relief important? I am drawn to the Leupold by it's big eye relief, 4.7 - 3.7 inches compared to Bushnell and Nikon's 3.5

[flintknapper]

Bushnell, like most makers, has several lines of 'scopes. I'd stay away from their cheapest.

Despite Nikon's good reputation in camera lenses, I have reservations about Nikon sport optics . . . a few years back, cemented doublets in their binoculars had a tendency to separate, due to poor (or poorly cured) optical adhesive. I don't know if these problems occur in their 'scopes, but if one part of their product line has problems, my inclination would be to avoid that brand entirely.

I like Leupold 'scopes . . . in all my years going to the range (and several years of serving as range safety officer at a major gun club during sight-in days before deer season) I've seen exactly two damaged Leupold 'scopes, and one of those was done-in by a severe whack to the objective bell.

Don't try to cheap out . . . someone once said that the disappointment of an inferior product lingers long after the price savings are forgotten . . .

On Exit Pupils

Technically, the exit pupil of an optical system is the image of the aperture stop as viewed from image space.

For a riflescope, as KBCraig wrote, the exit pupil can be computed by dividing the objective diameter by the magnification.

Why is exit pupil important?

Consider . . . the dark-adapted human eye's pupil is about 7mm in diameter, so in twilight conditions, 'scope exit pupils larger than that will not make a 'scope look any "brighter" but a smaller 'scope exit pupil means your eye's pupil is under used, so what you're looking at will look dimmer than it needs to.

In daylight, your eye's pupil may only be 3mm . . . a 'scope exit pupil larger than that won't make things look any brighter.

In daylight conditions, aside from brightness, a large exit pupil makes your eye position a bit less critical - you can position your 3mm eye pupil anywhere within, say, a 7mm exit pupil and still have a full view of the image.

Great post, good info.

One thing to consider though...is that under completely dark conditions, ones eye might achieve a 7mm pupil, but this would not be true of everyone.

Most people would fall between 5-7. As we age... (40 and over for most folks), our eyes lose the ability to dilate as much as in our youth. So, "exit pupils" on optics... start to have varying degrees of usefulness.

Lens coating(s) is something that is often overlooked and misunderstood. Be sure to inquire about the coatings....as they are very important too.


Types of Coating

Coated – A single layer on at least one lens surface.

Fully Coated – A single layer on all air-to-glass surfaces.

Multi-Coated – Multiple layers on at least one lens surface.

Fully Multi-Coated – Multiple layers on all air-to-glass surfaces.

[DustinB]

I have a Nikon Buckmaster 3-9x and I've been very pleased with it. I was going to go with a Leupold, but the Nikon was a far better choice for me.

The Leupold only had 1/2 MOA adjustments while the Nikon had 1/4 MOA adjustments. The Nikon also had positive click adjustments and the ability to re-zero the adjustment knobs after zeroing. The optics seems just as good as Leupold to me, crystal clear.

I've heard the Leupold is much better in low light situations. Other than that there's no reason to go with the Leupold unless you plan to hunt close to dark. Nikon also has a full warranty like Leupold.

As for Bushnell, from what I've seen these scopes aren't even in the same lineup.

Weigh these options and find the best choice for you.
Do you want to hunt in very low light?
You're aiming at small targets, make sure you have the smallest MOA adjustments.
Do you like a positive click adjustment system?
Do you want to be able to adjust zero for longer ranges and easily be able to go back to regular zero?

[j1132s]

As for Bushnell, from what I've seen these scopes aren't even in the same lineup.

Bushnell has a large lineup, and their Elite 4200 is at the top. It is also a very good scope for the money; I don't think anybody would talk down about those scopes.

As for eye relief, it depends on where the scope will sit on your rifle and where you put your eye when aiming, but all the scopes you've selected are good, solid scopes where you shouldn't care too much in this area. (BTW, 3+" is very generous. And longer doesn't mean better, if that's the case, we'd all be mounting handgun scopes on our rifles.) Also, note that eye relief changes with changes in power setting.

You will not be sorry with any of those scopes you've listed. I'm not sure if 16x is enough for small 400 yd targets though (I think that's what you mentioned you'll be shooting). If I were you, I'd get the nikon just because it has 20x power.

[Stupid]

Thank you guys so much. I settled on Nikon. Now i have to buy my rifle.