17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[Oldgringo]

His story also matches the evidence that didn't become public until much later. It's like he's telling the truth or something.

As I said earlier, much earlier, "the truth will out".

Holder had a shot at him, the current POTUS implied he killed the POTUS' son that he never had. How long y'all reckon it'll be before the IRS comes callin' on him.

[WildBill]

How long y'all reckon it'll be before the IRS comes callin' on him.

Good point. GZ should get with a financial advisor and probably put in quarterly tax payments.

[Jusster]

His story also matches the evidence that didn't become public until much later. It's like he's telling the truth or something.

Wow 96 pages LOL. Thought this topic would be dead by now....

I think what he meant by Too Good is that Zimmerman is simply saying what he thinks will get him off, not the actual true account as to what happened. By the way, what part of his story matches the evidence that didn’t become public until much later?


Jusster

[tbrown]

How long y'all reckon it'll be before the IRS comes callin' on him.

Good point. GZ should get with a financial advisor and probably put in quarterly tax payments.

He might be better off heading for the seashores of Old Mexico.

[57Coastie]

How long y'all reckon it'll be before the IRS comes callin' on him.

Good point. GZ should get with a financial advisor and probably put in quarterly tax payments.

As you know, WildBill, that was all they could pin on Al Capone.

Jim

[sjfcontrol]

His story also matches the evidence that didn't become public until much later. It's like he's telling the truth or something.

Wow 96 pages LOL. Thought this topic would be dead by now....

I think what he meant by Too Good is that Zimmerman is simply saying what he thinks will get him off, not the actual true account as to what happened. By the way, what part of his story matches the evidence that didn’t become public until much later?


Jusster

Which he made up overnight, while being interrogated by the police, without benefit of the knowledge of what the physical evidence/witnesses would show/say, and yet it all meshes. Oh, and he bashed himself in the nose and the back of the head in the few seconds between shooting Martin and the time the police showed up, just to make it look good. Wow, if he were that smart, you'd think he'd be smart enough to just have stayed in the truck. He is simeotaniously a bumbling idiot, and a criminal genius!

They recorded that the day after it happened. NOTHING was public at that point.

[Jusster]

His story also matches the evidence that didn't become public until much later. It's like he's telling the truth or something.

Wow 96 pages LOL. Thought this topic would be dead by now....

I think what he meant by Too Good is that Zimmerman is simply saying what he thinks will get him off, not the actual true account as to what happened. By the way, what part of his story matches the evidence that didn’t become public until much later?


Jusster

Which he made up overnight, while being interrogated by the police, without benefit of the knowledge of what the physical evidence/witnesses would show/say, and yet it all meshes. Oh, and he bashed himself in the nose and the back of the head in the few seconds between shooting Martin and the time the police showed up, just to make it look good. Wow, if he were that smart, you'd think he'd be smart enough to just have stayed in the truck. He is simeotaniously a bumbling idiot, and a criminal genius!

They recorded that the day after it happened. NOTHING was public at that point.

I definitely wouldn’t call Zimmerman a genius by any stretch of the imagination. He would have been much better off refusing to provide any of the details that he did in the interview I watched. He completely miss represented the conversation between himself and the dispatcher, based on his call he made to SPD he didn’t get out of his car to check street signs. In fact the last statement he made to them if I remember correctly was asking them to call him when they (SPD) got there because he wasn’t sure where he would be. His written statement is also inconsistent with his sit down interview as well. I guess that’s why SPD originally wanted to charge him with manslaughter.

Edit: And from what I can see his injuries are inconsistent with his version of events as well.

Jusster

[baldeagle]

Wow 96 pages LOL. Thought this topic would be dead by now....

I think what he meant by Too Good is that Zimmerman is simply saying what he thinks will get him off, not the actual true account as to what happened. By the way, what part of his story matches the evidence that didn’t become public until much later?

Jusster

Numerous things. The initial interviews and the walk-through of the scene all occurred within 24 hours of the shooting. No evidence was released until just recently, and no evidence was leaked until at least a month later.

He claims Martin hit him in the face. The evidence is several facial lacerations and a broken nose, confirmed by both the police and his doctor. He claims Martin bashed his head on the sidewalk several times. The evidence is gashes on the back of his head, several photos of those gashes and a doctor's report. He claims the altercation began at the junction of the "T" of the sidewalk and moved a few feet from there. That's where the body was found and where witnesses say they saw various elements of the incident. He claims he fired one shot. There was one round missing from his weapon and the bullet extracted during autopsy was determined to have come from his weapon. He claims he shot Martin at close range. The autopsy found that Martin had been shot at close range. He claims he jumped on top of Martin after shooting him because he believed he was still a threat. Some witnesses saw him on top of Martin. He claims he was crying for help. A 911 call one of the neighbors made recorded cries for help. He claims a neighbor in the first condo came outside and said he was calling police and he told him the police were calling and he needed help restraining Martin. That neighbor called 911 and reported the fight and stated that Martin was straddling Zimmerman "MMA style". All the blood and DNA evidence matches his account. For example, he stated that Martin was reaching for his gun but didn't get to it when he drew and fired. Martin's fingerprints and DNA were not found on the gun. Zimmerman's were. Martin had Zimmerman's blood on the cuffs of his outer garment and a cut on one knuckle. He had no other injuries except the gunshot wound. Zimmerman had no evidence of having used his fists to fight back.

He passed a voice stress test where he was asked if he started the confrontation (No) and if was in fear of his life (Yes). He was interviewed by police on 2/26, again on 2/27, passed the voice stress test on 2/27, was recorded on video reenacting the incident on 2/27, was interview extensively on 2/29 by Detective Serino and again on 3/25 by phone and 3/26 by phone. Yet the police could not find probable cause to arrest him.

That's just a brief summary.

[sjfcontrol]

Wow 96 pages LOL. Thought this topic would be dead by now....

I think what he meant by Too Good is that Zimmerman is simply saying what he thinks will get him off, not the actual true account as to what happened. By the way, what part of his story matches the evidence that didn’t become public until much later?

Jusster

Numerous things. The initial interviews and the walk-through of the scene all occurred within 24 hours of the shooting. No evidence was released until just recently, and no evidence was leaked until at least a month later.

He claims Martin hit him in the face. The evidence is several facial lacerations and a broken nose, confirmed by both the police and his doctor. He claims Martin bashed his head on the sidewalk several times. The evidence is gashes on the back of his head, several photos of those gashes and a doctor's report. He claims the altercation began at the junction of the "T" of the sidewalk and moved a few feet from there. That's where the body was found and where witnesses say they saw various elements of the incident. He claims he fired one shot. There was one round missing from his weapon and the bullet extracted during autopsy was determined to have come from his weapon. He claims he shot Martin at close range. The autopsy found that Martin had been shot at close range. He claims he jumped on top of Martin after shooting him because he believed he was still a threat. Some witnesses saw him on top of Martin. He claims he was crying for help. A 911 call one of the neighbors made recorded cries for help. He claims a neighbor in the first condo came outside and said he was calling police and he told him the police were calling and he needed help restraining Martin. That neighbor called 911 and reported the fight and stated that Martin was straddling Zimmerman "MMA style". All the blood and DNA evidence matches his account. For example, he stated that Martin was reaching for his gun but didn't get to it when he drew and fired. Martin's fingerprints and DNA were not found on the gun. Zimmerman's were. Martin had Zimmerman's blood on the cuffs of his outer garment and a cut on one knuckle. He had no other injuries except the gunshot wound. Zimmerman had no evidence of having used his fists to fight back.

He passed a voice stress test where he was asked if he started the confrontation (No) and if was in fear of his life (Yes). He was interviewed by police on 2/26, again on 2/27, passed the voice stress test on 2/27, was recorded on video reenacting the incident on 2/27, was interview extensively on 2/29 by Detective Serino and again on 3/25 by phone and 3/26 by phone. Yet the police could not find probable cause to arrest him.

That's just a brief summary.

This, to me was new information. I was quite pleased to hear this this morning. I had heard witnesses who's descriptions indicated that Zimmerman was on top of Martin, but thought that they might have mistaken who was on top of who. This was the first I'd heard that Zimmerman admitted being on top of Martin, but after the shooting. This fills a hole for me.

[Jusster]

Wow 96 pages LOL. Thought this topic would be dead by now....

I think what he meant by Too Good is that Zimmerman is simply saying what he thinks will get him off, not the actual true account as to what happened. By the way, what part of his story matches the evidence that didn’t become public until much later?

Jusster

Numerous things. The initial interviews and the walk-through of the scene all occurred within 24 hours of the shooting. No evidence was released until just recently, and no evidence was leaked until at least a month later.

He claims Martin hit him in the face. The evidence is several facial lacerations and a broken nose, confirmed by both the police and his doctor. He claims Martin bashed his head on the sidewalk several times. The evidence is gashes on the back of his head, several photos of those gashes and a doctor's report. He claims the altercation began at the junction of the "T" of the sidewalk and moved a few feet from there. That's where the body was found and where witnesses say they saw various elements of the incident. He claims he fired one shot. There was one round missing from his weapon and the bullet extracted during autopsy was determined to have come from his weapon. He claims he shot Martin at close range. The autopsy found that Martin had been shot at close range. He claims he jumped on top of Martin after shooting him because he believed he was still a threat. Some witnesses saw him on top of Martin. He claims he was crying for help. A 911 call one of the neighbors made recorded cries for help. He claims a neighbor in the first condo came outside and said he was calling police and he told him the police were calling and he needed help restraining Martin. That neighbor called 911 and reported the fight and stated that Martin was straddling Zimmerman "MMA style". All the blood and DNA evidence matches his account. For example, he stated that Martin was reaching for his gun but didn't get to it when he drew and fired. Martin's fingerprints and DNA were not found on the gun. Zimmerman's were. Martin had Zimmerman's blood on the cuffs of his outer garment and a cut on one knuckle. He had no other injuries except the gunshot wound. Zimmerman had no evidence of having used his fists to fight back.

He passed a voice stress test where he was asked if he started the confrontation (No) and if was in fear of his life (Yes). He was interviewed by police on 2/26, again on 2/27, passed the voice stress test on 2/27, was recorded on video reenacting the incident on 2/27, was interview extensively on 2/29 by Detective Serino and again on 3/25 by phone and 3/26 by phone. Yet the police could not find probable cause to arrest him.

That's just a brief summary.

There were news reports with interviews of witnesses the day after the shooting. You and I may not have noticed them because this didn’t become a national story until a month later. Below is just one example to prove that point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfN7-2ErEk4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He did more than claim Martin hit him in the face. He stated that Martin repeatedly hit him in the face over and over again, hitting him so hard he felt like he was being hit by a brick and he thought he might have something in his hand. He also claimed that Martin was pounding his head into the pavement so hard he thought he was going to blackout and his head was going to explode. He claims Martin had his hands over his nose and mouth smothering him. I can’t remember, did they find Zimmerman’s DNA on Martins hands? Can you honestly sit there and tell me that the minor injuries that Zimmerman displayed the day after the shooting backs up his claims? Sorry but I’ve seen people who have had their face pounded and head beat against walls or the street and Zimmerman’s appearance does not live up to the story.

All of the details you have mentioned he would be stupid to completely lie about, but it is obvious he exaggerated the facts and lied about his discussion with the SPD dispatcher. Blood DNA evidence matches that a fight took place not necessarily his version of the events. Martins DNA or fingerprints not found on Zimmerman’s gun is proof of what? Z would be better off if M’s prints or DNA were found on it, at least his claim he was trying to take his gun would be more believable. Oh and by the way, didn’t that witness change his story from the whole “MMA style” punches he said he witnessed?

Yes he “claims” he was jumped. There is no proof that he actually was. In fact, he’s going to have a problem trying to explain why his version of the discussion he had with the dispatcher is so much different the what was really discussed. Which would make me wonder about the rest of his story as well.

As far as the voice stress test goes, maybe Z actually believes he didn’t provoke the situation. Maybe he thought it was ok to follow someone who was doing nothing wrong and get out of his truck and chase them. But that doesn’t make it right.

By the way, the police DID want to arrest him and recommend so. It was the DA who gave him a pass.

Jusster

[baldeagle]

As far as the voice stress test goes, maybe Z actually believes he didn’t provoke the situation. Maybe he thought it was ok to follow someone who was doing nothing wrong and get out of his truck and chase them. But that doesn’t make it right.

By the way, the police DID want to arrest him and recommend so. It was the DA who gave him a pass.

Jusster

I clipped what you wrote for brevity, not to emphasize what I've quoted.

I'm no longer going to respond to speculation about Zimmerman's motivations, accusations or denigrations of his character or anything other than the facts of the case. It's not my place (or yours or anyone else's) to decide, post hoc, that his injuries didn't justify what he did. I would hope that if you were in a similar situation, felt your life was in danger and shot someone as a result, fellow CHL holders would give you the benefit of the doubt. The idea that one must sustain some imaginary pre-determined level of damage before shooting someone is justified, is detestable and counter to everything we are taught, not to mention a display of ignorance of the law. I can assure you that is someone was banging my head on a sidewalk, I would not wait for over 50 seconds, as Zimmerman did, before drawing my weapon and shooting. I would expect my fellow CHLers to understand what I did and why, even though I know that the media and liberals will neither understand nor condone my actions.

Texas Self Defense Law does not require me to wait to be hit or measure the level of force being used against me and determine if it's sufficient to justify my use of deadly force. In fact, the mere attempt to use deadly force against me is sufficient to justify shooting someone.

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force;

[sjfcontrol]

As far as the voice stress test goes, maybe Z actually believes he didn’t provoke the situation. Maybe he thought it was ok to follow someone who was doing nothing wrong and get out of his truck and chase them. But that doesn’t make it right.

By the way, the police DID want to arrest him and recommend so. It was the DA who gave him a pass.

Jusster

I clipped what you wrote for brevity, not to emphasize what I've quoted.

I'm no longer going to respond to speculation about Zimmerman's motivations, accusations or denigrations of his character or anything other than the facts of the case. It's not my place (or yours or anyone else's) to decide, post hoc, that his injuries didn't justify what he did. I would hope that if you were in a similar situation, felt your life was in danger and shot someone as a result, fellow CHL holders would give you the benefit of the doubt. The idea that one must sustain some imaginary pre-determined level of damage before shooting someone is justified, is detestable and counter to everything we are taught, not to mention a display of ignorance of the law. I can assure you that is someone was banging my head on a sidewalk, I would not wait for over 50 seconds, as Zimmerman did, before drawing my weapon and shooting. I would expect my fellow CHLers to understand what I did and why, even though I know that the media and liberals will neither understand nor condone my actions.

Texas Self Defense Law does not require me to wait to be hit or measure the level of force being used against me and determine if it's sufficient to justify my use of deadly force. In fact, the mere attempt to use deadly force against me is sufficient to justify shooting someone.

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force;

Hear Hear!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jusster]

As far as the voice stress test goes, maybe Z actually believes he didn’t provoke the situation. Maybe he thought it was ok to follow someone who was doing nothing wrong and get out of his truck and chase them. But that doesn’t make it right.

By the way, the police DID want to arrest him and recommend so. It was the DA who gave him a pass.

Jusster

I clipped what you wrote for brevity, not to emphasize what I've quoted.

I'm no longer going to respond to speculation about Zimmerman's motivations, accusations or denigrations of his character or anything other than the facts of the case. It's not my place (or yours or anyone else's) to decide, post hoc, that his injuries didn't justify what he did. I would hope that if you were in a similar situation, felt your life was in danger and shot someone as a result, fellow CHL holders would give you the benefit of the doubt. The idea that one must sustain some imaginary pre-determined level of damage before shooting someone is justified, is detestable and counter to everything we are taught, not to mention a display of ignorance of the law. I can assure you that is someone was banging my head on a sidewalk, I would not wait for over 50 seconds, as Zimmerman did, before drawing my weapon and shooting. I would expect my fellow CHLers to understand what I did and why, even though I know that the media and liberals will neither understand nor condone my actions.

Texas Self Defense Law does not require me to wait to be hit or measure the level of force being used against me and determine if it's sufficient to justify my use of deadly force. In fact, the mere attempt to use deadly force against me is sufficient to justify shooting someone.

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force;

My point is not whether or not Zimmerman has the right to defend himself if his head was being banged against the ground, but rather his “story” doesn’t make sense. If someone were to jump you or I under different circumstances I would definitely support a self defense claim (even with my ”ignorance of the law”). Where you and I differ and I’m sure will continue to disagree is whether or not Zimmerman had a right to claim self defense in the first place. Of course Zimmerman’s character should and will be questioned to determine his motives. Just because Zimmerman has a CHL doesn’t mean that I will blindly ignore the obvious and take his word as if its gold. It’s not about a predetermined level of damage at all, it’s about the fact that his story doesn’t jive with me and is grossly inflated to give the appearance that he was somehow justified in his actions.

How about these facts. The fact that Zimmerman lied about the conversation he had with the dispatcher about being asked to "get somewhere where he could see Martin". He also lied about the reason he got out of his truck when he said it was because he was attempting to get the address. It is plain as day on the call that Zimmerman jumped out of his truck to follow Martin. Which is exactly why the dispatcher asked him if he was following him. Then there is his written statement where he says he shot him in the torso and there is no mention of the whole “I wasn’t sure if I hit him so I jumped on top of him to restrain him.” (paraphrased). I also find it interesting that he repeatedly called Martin a suspect and after he shot him continued to attempt to apprehend him, which is “counter to everything we are taught” by the way. But you want me to believe the rest of his statements as to why the fight started and that he didn’t provoke the situation as Martin’s girlfriend states she heard him do? His credibility is shot by his own doing lately and these tapes and written statements do not help. If is sounds like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck.

If you’re going to toss Texas penal codes around let’s reread Sec 9.32 (a)(1) and I’ll toss back atcha Sec. 9.31 (b)(4).

Now if you have any other “facts” you’d like to point out to me to show me the error of my way’s or my “ignorance of the law” let’s be civil about it without the insults.


Jusster

[flintknapper]

Jusster wrote:

Can you honestly sit there and tell me that the minor injuries that Zimmerman displayed the day after the shooting backs up his claims?

Yes. And I would not call a broken nose and lacerations to the back of the head...."minor" injuries. It takes very little pressure to certain areas of the back of the head...to render one unconscious.

Sorry but I’ve seen people who have had their face pounded and head beat against walls or the street and Zimmerman’s appearance does not live up to the story.

Zimmerman did not have his head beat against a "Wall" or "Street". According to his testimony (and the video) all of his body (except his head) was on the grass and only PART of his head was against the sidewalk, which happens to have a stepped edge, which would easily account for the type wounds he suffered.

But, perhaps you have unique qualifications (Medical/Forensic) you've not told us of...and can expand on your position?

[Jusster]

Jusster wrote:

Can you honestly sit there and tell me that the minor injuries that Zimmerman displayed the day after the shooting backs up his claims?

Yes. And I would not call a broken nose and lacerations to the back of the head...."minor" injuries. It takes very little pressure to certain areas of the back of the head...to render one unconscious.

Sorry but I’ve seen people who have had their face pounded and head beat against walls or the street and Zimmerman’s appearance does not live up to the story.

Zimmerman did not have his head beat against a "Wall" or "Street". According to his testimony (and the video) all of his body (except his head) was on the grass and only PART of his head was against the sidewalk, which happens to have a stepped edge, which would easily account for the type wounds he suffered.

But, perhaps you have unique qualifications (Medical/Forensic) you've not told us of...and can expand on your position?

Based on Zimmerman’s own statements as to what he claims happened to him his injuries do not match his statements. Go re-read my post and then go re-read\watch Zimmerman’s statements as to what he claims happened to him then lets discuss.

Nope never claimed to be in the medical or forensics field and I’m pretty sure the majority of Zimmerman’s peers who will be on the jury will not be either (if any at all). What I can rely on is real life experiences.

Edit: Oh wait, maybe that was another one of the reasons SPD wanted to charge him.......

The interview was one of several released Thursday by Zimmerman's defense.

Serino's first issue: Zimmerman's injuries. The cuts and bruises to his face, Serino said, were less serious than he would expect. Zimmerman says the teen punched him to the ground, then began beating him and slamming his head into the sidewalk.

"I've consulted a lot of people," Serino said, and the force Zimmerman described is "not quite consistent with your injuries."

He added that the sidewalk should have done more damage than the cuts to Zimmerman's head.

"Skull fractures is what happens with that," he said.

Serino noted that Zimmerman's defensive wounds were "essentially nonexistent," though he said Zimmerman's long sleeves may have protected him. There was also only one small injury to Trayvon's hand, the detective said.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... n-injuries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jusster