Accidental gun exposure due to sweat at youth football game

[NordicTexan]

Last night I was at the board meeting for one of the youth football leagues ( Elementary school age, not school sponsored). It was brought up, that at one of the games (at a local Jr High) this past month, a man used his shirt to wipe water from his face and in doing so he exposed his gun. A couple of the parents saw this, were concerned, and reported it to that teams board.

This sparked a short discussion during the meeting about CHL, signage / posting, school premise, and youth sports events. I was very pleased that this stayed as a very rational discussion. At one point, an excecutive board VP got up and stated that he felt safer knowing that CHL's were armed and present at the games, because they were the pre approved good guys. Some of the Athletic Directors, coaches and team president are either lawyers or law enforcement officer so there were plenty of attendee's who were familiar with the laws. The discussion served to increase the awareness of the CHL and no changes are being made by the league as a result of this discussion. Hopefully the CHL responsible will be more aware in the future as well.

Its nice to see that even with all the crazyness associated with youth football in texas ( it was a two our meeting discussing post season / play off issues) that concealed carry was understood, accepted, and supported.

[puma guy]

Good to know there are rational and informed people still around. If, as you stated, the incident of exposure occurred at a Jr High game the fellow was in violation by carrying there. If he's a parent of one of the elementary kids on the team someone should diplomatically inform him of such. JMHO

[NordicTexan]

Sorry, I may not have been clear. Exposure happened at a JR High football field, but it was during a youth football game. Basically the facility is rented out to the youth football team on saturdays for thier games. It was not at a school sponsored event.

[RoyGBiv]

The one time I've ever exposed my carry gun unintentionally was when I was wiping some smudge from my glasses (yes, I still prefer glasses over contacts). I used the hem of my sweater to wipe the lens, forgetting about the gun. My kids were standing in front of me when it happened and when I watched their eyes get wide, I knew why immediately.

Thankfully I was at home at the time, so, not a big deal. It was a good opener to talking about gun safety (again) and about what to do and say (or not do or say) should we ever become involved in an "incident".

Good story OP... Glad to know there are still some sane, rational, thoughtful people in this world.

[The Annoyed Man]

Sorry, I may not have been clear. Exposure happened at a JR High football field, but it was during a youth football game. Basically the facility is rented out to the youth football team on saturdays for thier games. It was not at a school sponsored event.

Hmmm.... Apparently I'm a little foggy on the law. Here is my understanding.... all references to school are to lower education, NOT college campuses:

1. CHL permits you to drive onto school property (parking lot) and secure your weapon in the car while on the campus, but you may not carry your weapon around the campus outside of your vehicle.

2. CHL makes no distinction whether an on-campus event is school-sponsored or not. All that matters is that you are on campus. (Similarly, "campus" is extended to include other school property like school buses, and off-campus school events like field trips.)

3. You are at a non-school sponsored event, ON a school campus.... you may not carry there. However, you may secure your weapon in your vehicle.

Am I missing something? Please.... instructors only answer this one. I respect everyone here, but opinions are a dime a dozen. I want to know what instructors tell their students, per what DPS instructs them to tell their students. That is the only standard that counts. Thanks.

[puma guy]

Sorry, I may not have been clear. Exposure happened at a JR High football field, but it was during a youth football game. Basically the facility is rented out to the youth football team on saturdays for thier games. It was not at a school sponsored event.

Hmmm.... Apparently I'm a little foggy on the law. Here is my understanding.... all references to school are to lower education, NOT college campuses:

1. CHL permits you to drive onto school property (parking lot) and secure your weapon in the car while on the campus, but you may not carry your weapon around the campus outside of your vehicle.

2. CHL makes no distinction whether an on-campus event is school-sponsored or not. All that matters is that you are on campus. (Similarly, "campus" is extended to include other school property like school buses, and off-campus school events like field trips.)

3. You are at a non-school sponsored event, ON a school campus.... you may not carry there. However, you may secure your weapon in your vehicle.

Am I missing something? Please.... instructors only answer this one. I respect everyone here, but opinions are a dime a dozen. I want to know what instructors tell their students, per what DPS instructs them to tell their students. That is the only standard that counts. Thanks.

That's my understanding also. As TAM requested. Insructors help

[Maxwell]

I have to agree. School property is school property and it is forbidden to carry on school property.

My wife and I do several craft shows and some of these are on rented out school centers so even though it is not during school hours it is still school property.

[Jaguar]

Not an instructor, but according to the law as I read it,

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(c) In this section: (1) “Premises” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

Further,

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (f) In this section:
(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

So if you are not in a building or portion of a building, you may be okay. Of course if it is a stadium, it may fall into the definition, but if just a field with some bleachers, it may not.

I decline to volunteer to be the test case.

[AEA]

If it happened in Plano, he would have seen the signs at the parking lot and know that it is in violation!

[KC5AV]

Not an instructor, but according to the law as I read it,

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(c) In this section: (1) “Premises” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

Further,

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (f) In this section:
(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

So if you are not in a building or portion of a building, you may be okay. Of course if it is a stadium, it may fall into the definition, but if just a field with some bleachers, it may not.

I decline to volunteer to be the test case.

This.

[A-R]

Jaguar nailed it, this is pretty much what I teach.

A football stadium on a school campus is about as grey as it gets for definition of school "premises" - if you go inside the gates, are you on a premises? what about in the bleachers? what about inside the bathroom which is a building under the bleachers, likely connected to the snack bar in some way (common plumbing)?

[AEA]

We need to get rid of all these grey encumbrances, along with all 30.06/51% and make the Laws read: "A Texas CHL holder is authorized to lawfully carry his/her handgun ANYWHERE a LEO is allowed to carry".

Simple and one "Common Sense" law I could live with!

Just imagine......you are in what was once a gray area or a unknown 30.06 and some Citizen calls the Po-Po........
He/she comes to check it out and no longer are you burdened by his/her lack of knowledge (take the ride). You simply inform him/her......"You are carrying, I am just as legal as you". End of conversation.

Would also accomplish a reduction in the length of the CHL-16!

[RoyGBiv]

This is my OPINION. Not legal advice.

Premises is fairly well defined as NOT including a "field".
If the "field" is like the Cotton Bowl, and has gates and doors that can secure the facility when nobody is inside then it is not a "field" it is a "Stadium" and off limits since a "stadium", as such, is included in the definition of "premises".

So... If the event was not sponsored by any school or ISD, and the location was a "field" and not a "stadium", IN MY OPINION, it's legal to carry.

[Teamless]

It is my belief that the football field is not premises as it is not a building or portion thereof.
However if you have to enter the building to use the bathroom, that is of course, off limits and you would need to disarm.

I don't want to be a test case, but I am a CHL who does carry at the events that NordicTexan referenced (no I am not the "wiper" in his discussion), but I believe I am legal in carrying, but I also believe "Concealed is Concealed".

[gigag04]

Are we sure he was a CHL and not an off duty LEO?